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Author Topic: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS  (Read 72454 times)

Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1035 on: October 16, 2010, 09:54:43 pm »

>Continue, only stopping for shiny weapons if I see any.

Or enemy attack?

Enemies tend to have guns, so yes, I would stop if I saw them. Although, probably with the intent to take the guns...

What about weapons with a matte finish?

ALSO:
I have a awesome post#1 pic to use... but should I wait until its relevant? I'll probably forget if I do...

WAIIIT... I know what to do.

Spoiler: It is a mystery (click to show/hide)

What could it mean :D
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 10:56:22 pm by Schilcote »
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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

qwertyuiopas

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1036 on: October 17, 2010, 01:59:23 am »

Probability of success on each turn? (one in X, or 0% if X is 0)
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Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1037 on: October 17, 2010, 02:14:54 am »

Probability of success on each turn? (one in X, or 0% if X is 0)

Those are some damn poor odds, and I doubt it's even possible to calculate that. I don't know enough about the future to figure it out.

1. They aren't random.
2. They don't form an easily recognizable pattern.
3. They have meaning.
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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

dragnar

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1038 on: October 17, 2010, 10:40:59 am »

I would guess that it's some sort of encoded url... but there are a few too many 0s for any method of encryption I know of... which isn't many.
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From this thread, I learned that video cameras have a dangerosity of 60 kiloswords per second.  Thanks again, Mad Max.

Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1039 on: October 17, 2010, 12:18:00 pm »

I would guess that it's some sort of encoded url... but there are a few too many 0s for any method of encryption I know of... which isn't many.

Exactly right. It's an encryption method I invented myself when I was eight.
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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

Frelock

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1040 on: October 17, 2010, 03:51:11 pm »

Oh boy; I'm taking a cryptography class this semester, so I should be able to do some sort of analysis with this.

Alright, if you invented it when you were 8, my guess is it's something like a substitution cipher where one letter goes to one 'unit' in the cipher-text.  This is opposed to a block cipher, where the letters surrounding each letter change where the letter goes; if you used one of those we're pretty much screwed.  Going along with the 8-year-old idea, it's unlikely that you used modular arithmetic in this thing, which simplifies the problem somewhat.  Also, it's doubtful that there's a key which goes along with the encryption method; once we figure out the method, all future encryption can be discovered with ease. 

Since I'm assuming that you used a substitution cipher, all we need to figure out the 'unit' which corresponds to one character.  Once we've done that, we've got frequency analysis to help us out.  Of course, if it's a modified viginere, then we might not have enough length to actually do an effective analysis.   However, we are lucky in the fact that dragnar deduced that it was a url, which means we're going to have plenty of punctuation, capital vs lowercase will be irrelevant, and it will probably start with http:// or www.  Since you revealed that this is an image, it will also likely end with an image tag (ie, .png, .jpg, .gif, or .bmp).

Now, I note that there are five sections of the message, if we count the large clumps of more than 2 numbers.  I could easily see that as five sections of a url, separated by a /.  The large chunk in the middle is almost certainly a decent sized block of text, quite possibly the initial website name (www.bay12forums.com, for instance).  However, I also note the three blocks of three zeros separated by a single number; I really want to assign www to that for some reason.  Problem is there are two blocks of numbers before that.  I'm currently thinking that numbers are letters and groups of zeros are punctuation, but there's no reason that has to be true, and in fact the ending somewhat suggests the opposite.  I'm also guessing that the single numbers in between the zeros are unimportant, though that could be entirely incorrect.  After all, you said they aren't random.

Well, that'll have to be it for the initial analysis.  There's still far too many unknowns to really get anywhere; if we didn't know this was a url, I'd call this secure for at least a short transmission.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 03:52:48 pm by Frelock »
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Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1041 on: October 17, 2010, 04:08:38 pm »

Actually, the encrypted data isn't the URL itself. It is, in fact, a ZIP file with a text file containing the url inside of it.
Also, at eight (or maybe it was ten? I have no idea...) years old I had an IQ of 150 and could participate in high school classes.

EDIT:

It is also definitely not a substitution cipher.

EDIT:

And there is a key.

EDIT:

Looking at the zip file in FileAlyzer's Hex editor, it appears that ZIP compression doesn't do anything to text files. Huh. So the full text of the URL IS actually in there, but it's also got a whole bunch of stuff surrounding it.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 04:19:01 pm by Schilcote »
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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

qwertyuiopas

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1042 on: October 17, 2010, 05:19:10 pm »

I think that a .zip works by eliminating duplicated patterns or something similar, and I doubt the text would have had any long enough repetitions to make it worthwhile.

...

And then I go to wikipedia, as leaving something like this a vague "I think" isn't as interesting as find out the specific details...

Quote
A ZIP file is identified by the presence of a central directory located at the end of the file. The directory stores a list of the names of the entries (files or directories) stored in the ZIP file, along with other metadata about the entry, and an offset into the ZIP file, pointing to the actual entry data. This allows a file listing of the archive to be performed relatively quickly, as the entire archive does not have to be read to see the list of files. The entries in the ZIP file also include this information for redundancy

Quote
Each entry is introduced by a local header with information about the file such as the comment, file size and file name, followed by optional "Extra" data fields, and then the possibly compressed, possibly encrypted file data

So, what we will have is a file entry, neither compressed nor encrypted, followed by a central directory with one entry reference.

Quote
The ZIP format uses specific 4-byte "signatures" to denote the various structures in the file. Each file entry is marked by a specific signature. The beginning of the central directory is indicated with a different signature, and each entry in the central directory is marked with yet another particular 4-byte signature.

There is no BOF or EOF marker in the ZIP specification. Often the first thing in a ZIP file is a ZIP entry, which can be identified easily by its signature. But it is not necessarily the case that a ZIP file begins with a ZIP entry, and is not required by the ZIP specification.

Tools that correctly read ZIP archives must scan for the signatures of the various fields, the ZIP central directory. They must NOT scan for entries because only the directory specifies where a file chunk starts. Scanning could lead to false positives, as the format allows for other data to be between chunks.

There are three headers described by wikipedia. The final one is 22+comment bytes long, and starts with 0x06054b50. Just before it should be 46+filename+comment+extra bytes long, and starts with 0x02014b50. At or near the start of the file should be one that starts with 0x04034b50 and is 30+filename+extra bytes long. Between the first two of the three should be the actual data, and we know that it is uncompressed.

I'm going to estimate that the final file is at least 200 bytes long, 98 minimum in the three headers, an unknown ammount from the filename, repeated twice, the data, and then possibly extra data and comments. It could be as low as 150 bytes, possibly even lower, although that is unlikely.
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dragnar

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1043 on: October 17, 2010, 05:23:05 pm »

Actually, the encrypted data isn't the URL itself. It is, in fact, a ZIP file with a text file containing the url inside of it.
Ah, you took the raw machine code of a file and encrypted it. Meh, doesn't matter. It's practically impossible to decrypt anything like that without a lot of examples of encrypted files. And even then it would be a mess. Encryption is easy, decryption is hard.

Ex:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Encoded in about 30 seconds. Decoding is a good deal harder.(though this might not be the best example... pretty simple to figure out through trial and error.)
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From this thread, I learned that video cameras have a dangerosity of 60 kiloswords per second.  Thanks again, Mad Max.

Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1044 on: October 17, 2010, 05:36:55 pm »

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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

qwertyuiopas

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1045 on: October 17, 2010, 05:48:59 pm »

Does the pad loop? I have experience working with a short looping pad used on numerous files, where a few certain values were known, specifically the locations of a few zeros...

Here, we know what the first four bytes must be, and the data looks like ~130-140 entries long, so I will assume that each line is one byte and the filename and data are fairly short. If enough of it can be figured out, a pattern might become evident, and some or all of the data might be restored. By the number of zeroes and the size of the numbers, I will assume that it is simply multiplication, and I will assume that the key either loops or is procedurally generated.

Is any of that correct?
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Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1046 on: October 17, 2010, 07:11:27 pm »

Does the pad loop? I have experience working with a short looping pad used on numerous files, where a few certain values were known, specifically the locations of a few zeros...

Here, we know what the first four bytes must be, and the data looks like ~130-140 entries long, so I will assume that each line is one byte and the filename and data are fairly short. If enough of it can be figured out, a pattern might become evident, and some or all of the data might be restored. By the number of zeroes and the size of the numbers, I will assume that it is simply multiplication, and I will assume that the key either loops or is procedurally generated.

Is any of that correct?

Yes! You got just about everything right.
The "passkey" is used as a seed for a random number generator. The program then takes each byte of the file and multiplies it by a value from the random number generator and writes the result to a separate file. That's all it is really. The multiplication factor is different each time so you can't just pattern analyze it. The only real downside is that it greatly multiplies the size of the file, which I could remedy by making the value "overflow" and stay under 255.

I don't know too much about the random number generator that B+ uses, but it's pseudo-random so you could theoretically break the code by comparing the bits of a .zip file that you know are constant to the results of the generator.
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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

Frelock

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1047 on: October 18, 2010, 01:29:40 am »

Pretty impressive for an 8-year old.  Yay for being wrong on most counts!  You're right, if we knew how that random number generator works in great detail, and had a decent amount of data to work with (preferably multiple messages with the same form) there might be an exploit somewhere down the line, but definitely not enough information for this problem.

Oh, and I did say like a substitution cipher, by which I meant "cipher where each letter is encoded individually" like the viginere cipher or a one-time pad (which is just a viginere with a really long keyword).  Block ciphers are things like Playfair or Hill's or RSA where you do math on multiple letters at once.  The problem is, I don't think there's a word for a non-block cipher, so I just use "substitution" even though it technically means something else.  Maybe "simple" would be better.
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Schilcote

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1048 on: October 18, 2010, 10:14:01 pm »

Qwerty: >Continue, only stopping for shiny weapons if I see any.
Dragnar: Name the AI Slick(just because) and tell it to look for any records of what is happening in that world we just left.
Frelock: Use the same database were I got the map to find a vehicle and hack into its controls.

Qwerty: 6

You moonjump twoards Gravelpit HEYLOOKGUNS

You fall into the zombies with guns.

Roll to dodge: 6

You efforlessly outrun the zombie's attempts to attack due to your reduced weight.

Roll to attack: 1

You run into the zombies and try to take their guns with your bare hands. It doesn't work terribly well.

Dragnar: 6

You order your AI to devote full processing power to determining what's happening there.

Frelock: 3

That's a pretty tall order. There is no such database.

Text:

There seems to be an extremely stiff breeze...

Suddenly, a floating humanoid figure appears before the party. Its eyes glow a bright red. It smiles evilly.

Spoiler: Statuses (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 12:11:04 am by Schilcote »
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WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

Frelock

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Re: Netland RTD: Erectin' ADDITIONAL PYLONS
« Reply #1049 on: October 19, 2010, 02:26:41 am »

Give me a tactical scan (with my Tactical Scanner), normal scan, hidden entity scan (to find out if there's anything similar around), and a code hack into this thing's insides, just to see what's there.  I want to know what this is.
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