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[shadowform]

It's not cheating.

...kind of like how quantum stockpiles, atom smasher defenses, and goats chained at the end of a labyrinthine hallway filled with traps aren't cheating either.  It's a clever, and possibly unintended, use of the game mechanics.

[kotekzot]

You just described an exploit, which is (dun-dun-dun) a kind of cheating.

[Kagus]

There are people who would regard reading the wiki as (a kind of) cheating.

Exploitation is, and has always been, loads of fun.  It means you've discovered a loophole or an oversight in the original program, and you've figured out a way to milk that oversight for all it's worth.

Cheating is different because you're using something that is designed specifically for that purpose, rather than simply finding something that wasn't supposed to work that way.


I remember in Sid Meier's SimGolf, where I managed to find a way of creating a superhero golfer who simply couldn't be beaten, and who would sometimes build courses that only he himself could complete.

And in Planet Blupi, I discovered the item duplication exploit by myself.  I wasn't even 9 years old yet.


Exploits are always fun because they're sort of "half" cheating.  You haven't changed the game, you're just playing it differently.

[shadowform]

There's one trap on DFMA that freezes goblins in ice as they march through a thin tunnel.  It's a clever, and possibly unintended, use of game mechanics as well.  Does that make it cheating?

Admittedly, the fact that melting individual bolts into material can produce more material than was originally used to make the bolts is unusual, but in a world where lava does not have pressure, giant eagles can fly, fish routinely kill sapient creatures, and cannibalism is considered less of an atrocity than cutting down a tree, I don't think that real world physics or logic really apply.

[kotekzot]

I wouldn't call the brilliant cryotrap cheating. Making it must've been harder and more interesting than churning out a bunch of bolts and shooting the orcs with them from above. Abusing the rough melting mechanic is just cheap, although I have to admit the idea on how to separate those stacks is quite brilliant.

But I feel this is getting off topic, and not in a good way. I won't try to force my thoughts on how to play DF on others, I was simply curious why go the hard route if you are cheating anyway.

[Supercharazad]

I don't get the point here, couldn't you just forge then melt then forge? What's the point in just turning it into stacks of one?

[shadowform]

I don't get the point here, couldn't you just forge then melt then forge? What's the point in just turning it into stacks of one?

It melts into the same quantity regardless of how many bolts are in the stack.

[Duke 2.0]

Responding to Duke2.0:

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

[darthbob88]

I don't get the point here, couldn't you just forge then melt then forge? What's the point in just turning it into stacks of one?

It melts into the same quantity regardless of how many bolts are in the stack.

Hmm, debatably. According to some interesting numbers in the melting, 25 1-bolt stacks will melt to 25 lots of .1 bar, while 1 25-bolt stack will melt to one lot of .3 bar. T'wiki.

[Kagus]

It used to be that you'd get back a third of a bar for each bolt.  Now that was just silliness...

[darkrider2]

Well since this isn't really a done game yet. We are kindof like the testers for it. It is our job to find exploits.

When there's an exploit it just means the developer(s) screwed up or overlooked something. I'm fine with that nobody is perfect. But if they don't at least attempt to fix it then there are problems. Hopefully toady will work on these and other things in upcoming versions.

[Kagus]

In the meantime, HELLO AND WELCOME TO ANOTHER FABULOUS EVENING OF 'SHOOT THE GOBLIN'!

*cheering*

Tonight's contestants are members of our proud and patriotic marksdwarf divisions, protecting us against the ever-looming threat of elven invasion.  In the red corner, we have the esteemed squad "the Balls of Trapping", led by the courageous and daring Likot Kilrudastesh, and in the blue corner we have "the Bronze Cloaks", headed by none other than the great Tekkud Kuletilid!

*cheering*

Our sponsors would like to thank you for joining us here tonight for what is certain to be a contest of epic proportions!  Grimesplatter Breweries reminds us that "a day without Sunshine is like a sock without spikes", and the offices of Bidok and Mabdul welcome you to the grand opening of their new branch of magmatic law firms.  "Mandates got you down?  Get the hottest defense in town!".

We'd also like to inform our viewers that all the bolts from tonight's game will go to the Unemployed Smiths charity.  "Unemployed Smiths, bettering your life one stud at a time".


Now, are you ready to SHOOT.  SOME.  GOBLINS?

*CHEERING*

[Kidiri]

Grimesplatter Breweries reminds us that "a day without Sunshine is like a day with sunshine."

Fixed it for you.

[NW_Kohaku]

I wouldn't call the brilliant cryotrap cheating. Making it must've been harder and more interesting than churning out a bunch of bolts and shooting the orcs with them from above. Abusing the rough melting mechanic is just cheap, although I have to admit the idea on how to separate those stacks is quite brilliant.

Is making an orc or playing Dig Deeper cheating?  Or is making goblins stronger cheating?  Is modding in general cheating?

You're changing the game to alter the difficulty level, after all.  Is doing it in reverse somehow not as bad, or even more laudable, even though it is, effectively, the same thing?

[kotekzot]

I wouldn't call the brilliant cryotrap cheating. Making it must've been harder and more interesting than churning out a bunch of bolts and shooting the orcs with them from above. Abusing the rough melting mechanic is just cheap, although I have to admit the idea on how to separate those stacks is quite brilliant.

Is making an orc or playing Dig Deeper cheating?  Or is making goblins stronger cheating?  Is modding in general cheating?

You're changing the game to alter the difficulty level, after all.  Is doing it in reverse somehow not as bad, or even more laudable, even though it is, effectively, the same thing?

Following that logic, should childbirth be considered the same as murder? It's just murder in reverse, after all.