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[Grimlocke]

Apparentelly IE thought it was a great idea to replace alt-key inputs with a function that closes your tab. I gotta reinstall firefox... Well on to retyping this.

So, I think dwarven religeon would be something closer to hinduism, only with a somewhat nordic style to it. They would have many gods, a bit like they do now. One for war, one for smithing, one for brewing, etc. They would all bicker about which god is better than others, making it would make some great barfight material. A bit like a flamewar, only with more violence and (empty?) pint tossing.

Guilds could have their own patron gods, and it could pool its efforts into building shrines and offering stuff related to them. The farmers guild would regularly offer some of its best roast and wine, and the metalsmiths would make lavish metal statues and fancy trinkets with images of their god.

Though I must admit how those catholic saints fit in kinda well with that system. Except that I realy dont see dwarves as a people who would yield to some centralised power like the catholic church. I think they would sort of have a slightly different religeon for each of their fortresses, as they each come up with their own myths, images and rituals in there. Migrations and trade between fortresses would be either delicate diplomacy, or more bar fights.

Also, the reply text box just started to spaz out... had to finish this in notepad. Rubbish IE, reinstalling firefox right after this.

[Mel_Vixen]

Guardian angels is not that far bad concept, if you want to criticize  something, you should poke fun at comparing angels to gods of various  pantheons.

I didnt want to criticizes the idea itself. I was just saying that other religions - like certain forms of shamanism with soul- and power- animals - have beings that have positions similiar to "Guardian angels". In df-terms this could be lesser Nature spirits etc.

[ein]

My favourites are St. Albertus Magnus and Antonio of Padua.
Probably not the most badass, but still awesome.

[inteuniso]

Apparentelly IE thought it was a great idea to replace alt-key inputs with a function that closes your tab. I gotta reinstall firefox... Well on to retyping this.

So, I think dwarven religeon would be something closer to hinduism, only with a somewhat nordic style to it. They would have many gods, a bit like they do now. One for war, one for smithing, one for brewing, etc. They would all bicker about which god is better than others, making it would make some great barfight material. A bit like a flamewar, only with more violence and (empty?) pint tossing.

Guilds could have their own patron gods, and it could pool its efforts into building shrines and offering stuff related to them. The farmers guild would regularly offer some of its best roast and wine, and the metalsmiths would make lavish metal statues and fancy trinkets with images of their god.

Though I must admit how those catholic saints fit in kinda well with that system. Except that I realy dont see dwarves as a people who would yield to some centralised power like the catholic church. I think they would sort of have a slightly different religeon for each of their fortresses, as they each come up with their own myths, images and rituals in there. Migrations and trade between fortresses would be either delicate diplomacy, or more bar fights.

Also, the reply text box just started to spaz out... had to finish this in notepad. Rubbish IE, reinstalling firefox right after this.

On that subject, you could have dwarves who do follow a specific church, while others follow a more polytheistic approach. Crusade, anyone?

[KaelGotDwarves]

I always preferred the Muslim interpretation of Angels, but holy hell are the old testament renditions insane. Incomprehensible to the human mind, masses of hundreds of eyes, wings, mouths, arms, armed to the teeth.

Speaking patron saints -  Hussein ibn Ali for his role in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karbala
72 men fighting against thousands, it is the Islamic Shi'a version of Thermopylae

Guru Arjan Dev: for his role in turning the entire Sikh religion into the ONE religion that has continually fought righteously, ethically, and morally in all the battles they've fought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Arjan_Dev

The manner in which Guru Arjan Dev ji was martyred "convinced the sikhs that they must arm themselves and fight, if they wanted to live"[8]. It proved a turning point in the history of Sikhism.

And while we're at it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi

The contingent of twenty-one soldiers from the 36th Sikhs was led by Havildar Ishar Singh, and held off an Afghan attack of 10,000 men for several hours. All 21 Sikh soldiers chose to fight to the death instead of surrendering. In recognition of their supreme sacrifice, the British Parliament rose to pay them respect, and each one of them was awarded the Indian Order of Merit (equivalent to the Victoria Cross).

Goddamn those guys are all hardcore.

Gurmukh Singh, who communicated the battle with Col. Haughton, was the last Sikh defender. He is stated to have killed 20 Afghans, the Pashtuns having to set fire to the post to kill him. As he was dying he was said to have yelled repeatedly the regimental battle-cry "Jo Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal (He who cries God is Truth, is ever victorious).

Having destroyed Saragarhi, the Afghans turned their attention to Fort Gulistan, but they had been delayed too long, and reinforcements arrived there in the night of 13-14 September, before the fort could be conquered.[1] The Afghani pashtuns later stated that they had lost about 180 killed[6] and many more wounded[4] during the engagement against the 21 Sikh soldiers, but some 600 bodies[7] are said to have been seen around the ruined post when the relief party arrived

As an Atheist Buddhist, I have to respect these guys' resolve for protecting religious freedom and fighting intolerance wherever they go.

[praguepride]

St. Barbara - architects, builders and miners, artillerymen, foundry workers, firework makers, geoscientist, stonemasons, servicemen of the Russian Strategic Rocket Forces

Forget the other saints, Barb's got RUSSIAN ROCKETS!

[Archmage Ansrit]

I know plenty of non-intrusive, non-nosy Catholic people, am one myself. Even the priest at the local church doesn't mind, say, Atheists. I'm OK with them too -so long they aren't like the people they mock ("You should be an Atheist, 'cuz church and blahblahblah") ("I didn't ask you!")

Patron Saint of Internet and informatics: Isidor

Note to self: name my next server after him.

Seconded, plus, it sounds cool.

Also, FWIW, I think that the religion of the dwarves of Dwarf Fortress would fit in well with something like Catholicism - awesome chanting and old ceremonies and massive vaulted stone caverns (like cathedrals) and candles and lots of old, traditional religious 'tools' (like ancient saint relics & old crosses &c.).

Imagine these types of chants.

[Huggz]

My honest opinion is that religion is for people who cant bear the thought that they dont matter. And dont flame me for that, that is MY belief.

[Itnetlolor]

Spoiler: response to above (CAUTION: RELIGIOUS BELIEFS) (click to show/hide)

Well, whatever it takes to garner enough faith in at least oneself (even by proxy of "Angels" or "God") to either get things done, or to believe that things can't get worse. Plus, wouldn't you want a greater being to blame for situations gone total crap if you lack any other being to do so to? Repressing isn't always the answer. Plus, sometimes religion works as a way to stabilize certain kinds of people looking for something for some reason in life. Doesn't matter if it really existed or not. Think of religion like a really really big security blanket/stuffed doll. You can't really replace the "safe" feeling you get from it, nor the quality of what you've spent your entire life in.

As far as I recall, a majority of Catholics, at least, understand this, and do try to at least gain an understanding with other religions; but would have to intervene if anything gets a bit inhumane. I mean, we have refined ourselves to be a little more lenient and non-intrusive, but progressing mankind for the better is always our goal.

Not to derail things, but with cases like abortion, we're fighting counter-productivity of a possible foreseeable population drought, and re-teach our future generations on responsibility. To make abortions completely legal and funded by the government, everyone is obligated to fund a very inhumane method of population control; and to make matters worse, considering it would be as easy as getting OTC drugs from a pharmacy, irresponsibility will sky-rocket, and who knows what will be the next legal thing to come from that? We don't want to know, because recalling from the past, human beings can actually become worse than any demon in any religion/mythology, provided enough free will to do anything.

Plus, you gotta consider the possibility if God (or anyone elses') really does exist. A principality or power (in dimensions far less tangible and greater than the universe itself) would have to be the last thing you'd want to piss off. I mean, imagine being a character in someone else's story or artwork, now imagine what they would imagine to get rid of you either for the hell of it, or because you (as a character per say) did something so unfavorable, both the audience, and the writer, wants that guy dealt some fatal justice. Well, sometimes there are fates worse than death. Eternal life is sometimes just as bad as Hell, especially if your environment you've been trying to escape never changes. That's the kind of dick moves God can pull. That's a good reason to fear greater beings, benevolent or not.

Plus, sometimes, even believing they don't exist won't make them not exist. I mean, tell that to anyone in DF about the glowing pits (or words to that effect). Just because you don't believe in demons, doesn't make them not exist. You can maybe consider religion as one rather enormous Schrodinger Cat/Box. It may or may not exist; it may or may not actually be good. Let's also not forget the possibility of God creating us in His image. Now, imagine an omnipotent multi-dimensional, all-powerful person that may or may not actually be good. To tell the truth, that should put a new spin to the term God-Fearing.

[KaelGotDwarves]

This thread is going down the path to stupid. So if the two of you would kindly quit talking about your personal beliefs about religion and get back to badass dudes (and dudettes) that have been canonized, that would be great.

[Huggz]

As soon as a good debate gets going someone just has to ruin it
Ah well...

[Grakelin]

If you are not a Catholic (I am not myself), you can still use this thread to discuss your favorite patron saints. For us, it's the same as having a thread discussing our favorite Greek Heroes or Egyptian stories. There's no need to tell anybody what you think of the religion itself here.

EDIT: Also, St. Simon Peter was the most badass. He cut off a guy's ear.

[smokingwreckage]

I think the Sufi Muslims have saints, complete with Icons, but I might have misunderstood that.

[Toady Two]

I think saints and martyrs would be great for engravings in DF. It wouldn't be have to be linked to religion but if a dwarf died to save the fort it should be recognized and engraved.
For example the peasant that walled himself off with the HFS and saved the fort commemorated forever as patron of masons.

[Leotto]

This thread is actually pretty cool, for a religion thread that is.
My fave Saints are St. Peter cause he's a real down to earth kinda` guy, St. Anthony The Beast Master one, St. Fiacre a hermit among hermits was pretty much the patron saint of plants, and St. Faro cause Faro=Lighthouse in Italian.

Though I don't go to church anymore, I got tired of listening to all the crazy old women hit on me, also the priest was a pompous asshole. The local Parish got four dumbass priests in a row, such bullshit.