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[webadict]

If all his stuff makes sense as town, and his only offense is lurking, then you're not really trying hard enough. You also seem to be only trying to make a WoT because others did, and not because you find him particularly scummy.

[Errol]

Extension.

I voted for inteuniso to get responses from him, quite simply. He didn't post much up to this point. He gave a valid explanation for what he was doing iirc, but there haven't been any better targets - I don't have the two hours required to get up to date in terms of Dorf/Rolan and all the other stuff with people that is entangled within it. But. Inteuniso, you are getting very defensive. You are not offensive at all. And that's why my vote stays, as passiveness is a scumtell.
The walls of text struck me down, and I have a feeling the trenches will only deepen with everyone caught in the crossfire getting knocked out, so I'd just like you to not focus too much on each other, for the town's sake. Keep an eye on other persons.
(Er, wait, just reread and saw dorf indeed heeds this advice.)

Halmie, your suspicion list lists persons at position 2, 6 and 9 for the same explanation. Could you please be a little less brief? There's got to be a reason why the people got listed at wildly different positions for the same reason. At the moment, you are not transparent enough.

[GlyphGryph]

Errol, Halmie, neither of you see anything suspicious about ExKirby's actions so far? The fact that he's keeping up with the buddying, and still not pushing anyone, and posting an awful lot considering his surprising lack of pretty much any content?

Anyways, Exkirby, you said you would vote and add a wall of text if you didn't have to go to school.
Well, when you get home you won't have to anymore, so I expect to see it.


Therion, when you show up, remember that I've got a post with questions on you as well. I expect you to answer them.

[ExKirby]

Before my pressure-post on Rolan7, ExKirby was showing his "hyper-aggression" on Rolan7 that was pretty weak. After my post he agrees with me:

Well, with THAT hunk of evidene, I don't need extra pressure added. Nice job, dorf.

YOU should have done this, when you were pathetically attacking him.
But instead you agree with me 100% and won't even consider Rolan7's reply?! How come I'm any more pro-town than he is?

There's a differecne between over-attacking and hyper agression. I didn't say anything about agreeing with you-I just said you were doing a good job.

Luckily GG addressed this early-on:

Exkirby, why did you give up questioning Rolan so easily?

You ask him questions, he gives crappy responses, and then... you jump to Errol? Citing that pressing him won't help short term? If you think he's scum, you push till he breaks or you're sure he isn't scum. Especially if his answers haven't been good enough.

So, why is it? Do you no longer think he's scum? Would you rather let someone else pressure him instead of you? Were you satisfied with his answers?

Not satisfied, more annoyed. I figured that if he kept up giving answers like he did, I wouldn't have much of a read on him. So, I decided to try to get reads on other people.

SCUM ALERT!
WHAT?! You stopped questioning him because of his inadequate answers?
This is the time, when you should pressure him even harder, not back off!
I think he proved he's more than willing to give proper answers, so why not take this opportunity to ask him the questions you, apparently, had in mind for him?

I'm pretty sure Rolan was overdone on your behalf. Making someone slip up over a long period is making them slip up short term, just bacuase they needed to handle a large amount. Half of this is fluff, you know.

So, I decided to try to get reads on other people.

You just shown you are inefficient at scumhunting or just plain uninterested in a Mafia lynch.
In both cases you exude scumminess!

Is it not better to have two probable scum than to have one definate scum? If I can get both talking, I can find scumtells on both. However, I don't have a double vote.

@Errol-My bad. I'm not that phychic, so... my bad. Anyway, while my vote's on you, why did you want to give Rolan the "Benefit of the doubt"? Doubt is baad. Very, very baad.

Because he might be town, that's why. So, by your definition, you think all attackers are automatically cleared??

That was just to get him talking. Duh.

ExKirby: SirBayer even asked where all the player were, to which you replied "I'm here."
If you intended to be "hyper-aggressive", where the hell is it? Seems like you thought you'll be town, but now you're afraid to give proper attacks to anyone, because you are scum.

Hey, if I want to tell the host I'm here, I will. It's hard to be aggressive when no-one's around to agress.

Later on you even kid around!

Foe the lols, notapropervote SirBayer.

While some of us are trying to ACTUALLY be aggressive, you show no such signs.

No-one was talking while I was doing that. I just wanted something to do. Kill me for having human emotions, why don't you.

My first guess, another 12-page essay. Either way we need to get him to talk.

No. It's your turn now.
You haven't been useful AT ALL so far, so let's MAKE you useful. Tell us why have you been passive? Why do you post just to post? Where did all the promised aggressiveness went? And, if you're going to say that you just said that for the lulz, then explain how is your passiveness helping town?

All of this has been answered above, so I'm not even gonna bother.

I think you have some rock solid evidence there, but I want to hear from Errol before I do anything.

Again! He's so agreeable and nice to everyone. He doesn't apply pressure himself. He waits for others to write the reasons for him and jump on the wagon!
I mean.. If he has rock solid evidence, why do you even have to hear from Errol? It's not likely he'll break under the lukewarm pressure you're giving him.

Woah, so screw me for being nice and polite. I can't give Errol any more pressure if he doesn't talk. However, seeing as you seem to be turning harmless posts into scumtells, I'm gonna do the same to you. At the risk of this being classed as an OMGUS, unvote and vote dorf.

Errol, Halmie, neither of you see anything suspicious about ExKirby's actions so far? The fact that he's keeping up with the buddying, and still not pushing anyone, and posting an awful lot considering his surprising lack of pretty much any content?

Blame my bad luck for that one. I buddy with anyone... I'm just a nice guy. Trying to be aggresive, but nice.

There. Content. Happy now?

[GlyphGryph]

As far as defense goes your content is reasonable. It's content in the form of attacks and pressure that I'm looking for, and that I'm still not seeing enough of. We'll see.

[ExKirby]

Sometimes, the best attack is a good defense.
-A Wise Man

[GlyphGryph]

Thats not a quote of anything I've ever encountered. The quote that's always thrown around is the best defense is a good attack. Occasionally Attack is the best defense, and the best defense is offense.

If all you're doing is defending, then all you're doing is trying to stay alive. To deflect attacks to anyone but yourself. Interesting that this is a similiar theme in your "spread out and attack multiple people" angle. After all, it doesn't really matter who else gets taken down, does it? Since you're scum, any town will do.

[SirBayer]

Extension grudgingly granted, since as I recall there's no serious majority of votes. Deadline extended to Friday, January 15 2010, 10:00 AM PST

[ExKirby]

Thats not a quote of anything I've ever encountered. The quote that's always thrown around is the best defense is a good attack. Occasionally Attack is the best defense, and the best defense is offense.

If all you're doing is defending, then all you're doing is trying to stay alive. To deflect attacks to anyone but yourself. Interesting that this is a similiar theme in your "spread out and attack multiple people" angle. After all, it doesn't really matter who else gets taken down, does it? Since you're scum, any town will do.

What, so by your logic, I'm scum because I defended myself? Is this some kind of co-ordinated attack against me? ...Nah, that's crazy. But still, what would your reaction be if someone were to attack you? My first guess, a devensive one. Hell, if I wasn't near-convinced of dorf's scummynesss, I would vote you.

[GlyphGryph]

Someone HAS attacked me (well, voted for me/questioned me) - you've seen my reaction. I responded, and then continued scumhunting. I defended, and attacked - notice how a person can do both? If the evidence was overwhelming already and it was only day one, I might even let myself get lynched if it means the town would be able to refocus on the scum the next day.

I think you're scum because you ONLY defended yourself. Are you honestly unable to see the difference?

We've got an extension, we've got time - if you think I'm scum, come at me! Actually say something about it, ask me questions. Scumhunt. You can vote for dorf AND question me, you know.

[Akigagak]

Again, sorry for the absence. Being English plays havoc with these kind of things.

I'm a bit surprised that I haven't been pressured more due to absence, which is a much firmer basis for suspicion then who randomly voted who. I realise that there has been firmer evidence offered and discussed, but these arguments originate at RVs.
It also seems the only one to have not voted.

[Rolan7]

Unofficial Votecount:
Errol [2]: ExKirby, inteuniso
Rolan7 [1]: Dorf
ExKirby [1]: GlyphGryph
inteuniso [2]: Errol, Halmie
GlyphGryph [1]: Therion
dorf [1]: Rolan7

dorf tried to vote ExKirby, but he didn't unvote me first, so his vote's still on me.  Only other change is that inteuniso moved his vote from me to Errol.

Extension [5]: ExKirby, Halmie, dorf, Rolan7, Errol
Suspiciously (imho) refrained from requesting extension: Inteuniso, Therion, GlyphGryph, Akigagak
 
Conclusion: We are way too undecided.  No one has more than two votes.  Extension was definitely good for town, thank you SirBayer, and thanks everyone who requested it.  I see other people finally working hard to scumhunt, which is encouraging, and I will be analyzing those arguments to try to find the second scum.  I am still completely convinced that dorf is scum, though, and that we should all vote for him.  I'll only change my vote, at the last moment, if there's no chance of him being lynched this turn.

Also, aheheh,
GiveSirBayerAHardTime [2]: ExKirby, Rolan7

[Akigagak]

Why would anyone vote for an extension when 5 out of 9 people already have?

[ExKirby]

...My vote's on dorf.

[dakarian]

A warning about extensions.

Extensions are protown but have a VERY nasty bite to them: 

There's only so much that attention that a town can hold.. so much energy that they can spend without some payoff (the lynch).  It's almost like RL day and night: spend too long without sleep and you wear yourself out.

There is a point when a day has been extended so long that the town simply wears itself out.  I have yet to see a town that has done this to win later on.  The 'burn out' ends up lasting to the end of the game. 

This is not a voice to stop the extensions (I've also seen towns literally saved from destruction due to them).  It IS a voice to know that you need to do what it takes to keep yourselves alive.  It that means going hardcore agressive just to stir up debate, or pushing the host to start replacing people then so be it.

Btw, a warning to those who are lurking: If the host has to replace you before you request it..well.. needless to say that you'll have a VERY BAD next couple of months here.