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[Imp]

NQT - masons are utterly missing from your list, right?


I'd want to break as Town by being someone's mason so I knew who to santa/share with.  If that's intended, no masons...  I dunno any others yet.  I'll keep thinking.

[notquitethere]

I'd want to break as Town by being someone's mason so I knew who to santa/share with.  If that's intended, no masons...  I dunno any others yet.  I'll keep thinking.

To keep the pre-game distribution of roles simple there are only town and scum, both of whom may individually have secondary win-cons. Some secondary wincons (like Brother) give you an incentive to help out one specific player. The ability to share a chat with someone else is a good power. And the ability to make people Lovers (like I did in Magic Mafia) should also be there. I'll add them to the list.

[Toaster]

"To avoid all scum taking kill powers and all using them each night, scum collectively can't kill or convert more than one target in a night."

Change "Night" to "Phase" or each scum takes Dense Day Convert and doubles its size at the word go.  Still, let's assume three scum and a 13 man game:

1:  Hardcore Dense Day Convert Innocent
2:  Dense Night Convert Innocent
3:  Dense Double Vote Innocent

D1 convert someone.  With four votes it should be easy to drive a mislynch.  Convert someone overnight.  Short of a kill or block, the team should have six members come D2, which is either parity (12 standing) or enough votes to force a mislynch and win. 


Converts should either be priced much higher or removed.

[Leafsnail]

I'm pretty sure the game is broken if every townie takes Infallible Alignment Cop, Miller, Hardcore, Dense, Immovable and Unstoppable.

[notquitethere]

Toaster

"To avoid all scum taking kill powers and all using them each night, scum collectively can't kill or convert more than one target in a night."

Change "Night" to "Phase" or each scum takes Dense Day Convert and doubles its size at the word go.

Good spot.

 Still, let's assume three scum and a 13 man game:

1: Hardcore Dense Day Convert Innocent
2: Dense Night Convert Innocent
3: Dense Double Vote Innocent

D1 convert someone. With four votes it should be easy to drive a mislynch. Convert someone overnight. Short of a kill or block, the team should have six members come D2, which is either parity (12 standing) or enough votes to force a mislynch and win.  


Converts should either be priced much higher or removed.

Great point. Yes, scum kill/converts should be once per phase only and the price for conversion should be more expensive than killing as it's more powerful.

In general, I think I want to incentivise more the buying of powers mid-game, to make 'Dense' more of a difficult choice.

Leafsnail

I'm pretty sure the game is broken if every townie takes Infallible Alignment Cop, Miller, Hardcore, Dense, Immovable and Unstoppable.

The town can't collude to make sure everyone does this, but you have a point. I'll either get rid of infallibile alignment cop or limit players to only one flaw. Any thoughts on which is more interesting?

[Leafsnail]

The main issue is not interest but balance.  The town can easily shoot for a breaking strategy, and the scum's only response is to become a super-cult that wins on like the second day.  Perhaps it would actually be best for town to all take daykills and just end the game on day one before scum have a chance to convert everyone (since scum can only kill once you could confirm townies by firing).

You'd probably need to tone the powers down in order to get rid of town breaking strategies.

That said, I might use some of the basic ideas for the Dangan mafia I've been trying to create for a while (where everyone's win condition is to kill someone and get away with it).

[Imp]

Are there sets of mafias where 'everyone' is in a team?  Like a 12 player game, with 6 sets of 2 person teams, two sets are Scum, four sets are Town.

Town needs to eliminate all threats, each Scum team independently needs to remove the other team and outnumber Town.

Or is that obviously flawed?

I mean one inescapable strategy might be on D1, 'name your partners' - but you still don't know which set of 6 teams is Scum or Town.  Once you eliminate one of a Scum pair the remaining member is pretty much identified, but it still would take another lynch to get rid of that identified other Scum (the opposing Scum team probably won't waste a night kill on that 'certain lynch' unless they were sure that was needed).  So that 'obvious' strategy doesn't actually resolve much.

[Toaster]

The problem with Dense is the player needs to live to see N3 before it becomes a payoff in not taking it.  The question becomes how much do you want to encourage min/maxing?  If not much, then cap flaws at one.  (BTW Hardcore is probably the best choice if you're not taking a Dense strategy.)  Dense, therefore, becomes weaker as the game gets larger.


Also, Mercenary is just terrible.  Its benefit is lost as soon as you use a power once. 

[Persus13]

Are there sets of mafias where 'everyone' is in a team?  Like a 12 player game, with 6 sets of 2 person teams, two sets are Scum, four sets are Town.

Town needs to eliminate all threats, each Scum team independently needs to remove the other team and outnumber Town.

Or is that obviously flawed?

I mean one inescapable strategy might be on D1, 'name your partners' - but you still don't know which set of 6 teams is Scum or Town.  Once you eliminate one of a Scum pair the remaining member is pretty much identified, but it still would take another lynch to get rid of that identified other Scum (the opposing Scum team probably won't waste a night kill on that 'certain lynch' unless they were sure that was needed).  So that 'obvious' strategy doesn't actually resolve much.

Sounds interesting. The flip side of the partner mechanic is that if a townie is lynch then their partner becomes confirmed town and a highly likely scum target that night. So a town partner getting lynched is almost certain death for their partner.

[Leafsnail]

It would be basically the same as a 6 player game where everyone has a revive.  Only the revive reveals their alignment and makes them lose half a vote.  It would be silly because there'd be too many confirmed alignment players hanging around.

There is something that's basically what you're proposing though:
True Love. Similar, but the pairs die together.

Also:
Polygamist.  A funnier version where there are four mafia members who all die together.

[Max White]

Sounds interesting. The flip side of the partner mechanic is that if a townie is lynch then their partner becomes confirmed town and a highly likely scum target that night. So a town partner getting lynched is almost certain death for their partner.

Not if the partnership is hidden.
Then anybody claiming the partnership would become suspect of scum trying to make a fake claim... Heck if you managed to lynch two people that were both on the same team (Say players 'A' and 'B') then scum players could take their claims and look very townie (So Scum X and Y would claim an AX and BY relationship, with nobody alive to counter claim)

[Leafsnail]

No they wouldn't.  There's no reason not to immediately massclaim on day one, and scum fakeclaiming would be suicide (your partner is meant to be the same alignment as you, so if they say you're not their partner that makes you mafia).

[Persus13]

An idea I had for a game. Likely needs work to make balanceable.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
Based off the famous Western by Sergio Leone
Rules:
Townies are the Union. They win by the Confederates and The Ugly. One Inspector.
Scum are Confederates. Win by killing all of the Union and the Ugly. One Inspector. Only Confederates have access to the scum chat.
Three third-parties:
The Good. Needs to keep the Ugly (and knows who he is) alive and kill the Bad to win. Starts with a one-shot NK. Appears as Confederate to inspects.
The Bad. A Serial Killer who needs to kill the Good and the Ugly to win. Appears as Union to inspects.
The Ugly: Needs to keep the Good alive (and knows who he is) and survive to win. Appears as Confederate to inspects. The first NK on him kills the attacker.

[Max White]

Actually that would be an interesting dynamic... A game with three third parties where X needs Y to survive to win, Y needs Z to survive to win, and Z needs X to survive to win, and none of them need to live themselves.
Basically you would end up with three players all trying to take the fall themselves.

[Persus13]

Actually that would be an interesting dynamic... A game with three third parties where X needs Y to survive to win, Y needs Z to survive to win, and Z needs X to survive to win, and none of them need to live themselves.
Basically you would end up with three players all trying to take the fall themselves.

Actually, only two players need to keep the others alive. And I should make so they have to survive to win, because that's more accurate to the plot.