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[Cheeetar]

Votes on Archangel: I don't like lurkers.
Vote on Webadict: The whole argument seemed childish, so I thought it may be false.
Vote on AN:

I'll admit to rolefishing, as that's what I'm doing, but whether or not he tells me his role (hint: he won't) it doesn't really matter. If his actions make him look pro-town (as I might've managed to trick him into doing...) he becomes a viable target for scum.

Admitted to rolefishing. Admitted to trying to pick targets for scum (what?!?!).
What questions am I deflecting? I want to see them.
Also: You're wrong about me being scum. So there.

[dakarian]

If you believe that my argument is faulty then show them so I can explain or reevaluate my stance.

If you believe that my argument makes sense but leaves you unsure then question or accuse Cheeetar so you can obtain those answers.

If you believe that the argument is sound and that there is no defense for Cheeetar, please vote for him. 

I agree with you, he's been acting scummy. What I don't like is turning today into "Is Cheeetar scum, or not?" Especially when we've still got cop sanity running around, and not that much (it seems) to go on.

Umm, what!?

Deciding whether someone is scum or not is the entire POINT to the day game.  The cop sanity has NOTHING to do with Cheeetar's stance.  All cop sanity is at this point is a mini-game that the 'cops' now have to play to figure out who is who, sanity wise: right now we're best just to ignore it for the time being until something useful comes out.

Instead, we're here to scumhunt the NORMAL way.  Since Cheeetar is being accused by traditional means, whether he becomes today's lynch is VERY much on the table.

I'll admit that you've been seeming less scummy with your explanations, though, so I'll unvote and vote Cheeetar, pending his answer to your ultimatum. It would be a FOS, but I'm voting since I'm not entirely sure when the day ends and, without a response from Cheeetar that's another point against him.

Is there something in the argument in particular you don't like about him and want answers to, or are you meaning to be vague at the moment?  It seems odd since your other votes had a bigger piece of your mind attached than a standard bandwagon.


@Cheeetar

Your post defending your votes required me to not only pressure you and WOT you, but get to the point where I'm getting the town to utterly lynch you!

Before then you had 2 posts that didn't address ANY of the issues I brought up, but instead:

Suggested that I should be lynched, NOT because I'm scum but to prove if webadict is guilty (Which means we stop talking about you, lynch your accuser, then perhaps lynch the one you've been after for a while).

Then... you know, I had to read that second post again and I realize it makes even LESS sense than before.

Dakarian: Ok you guys, Cheeetar is REALLY SUSPICIOUS for deflecting my question about his supicions. I'm not going to vote for him though. So, you guys how do you feel about him maybe we should vote for him if you want to?

I thought you were saying that "I'M" suspicious but you don't want to vote for me.

Instead you're trying to paraphrase my posts?

Did you miss the fact that I started my attack BY voting for you?  I'm your first vote. 



In any case, you took the time to write those two posts without saying ANYTHING about my accusations-other than the deflection, which is just ONE smaller piece of the issue.  Those are your deflections, and defending yourself NOW doesn't help you cover them up.

Oh, and you're still deflecting the most damaging parts:

The fact you were voting with Pandarsenic for most of the day but barely mentioning him at all, even when you thought he was scum (as required for the Bussing argument).  You STILL seem hesitant to mention him.  He's not the Dark One: you can at least say his name.

That your votes are bandwagons rather than personal arguments, with the exception of your day 2 lurker hunt and the Bus argument that you abandoned quick enough.

Also, it seems sort of odd to just go out and scream 'bus' when you felt both people were, before, townish don't you think?

[Cheeetar]

@Cheeetar

Your post defending your votes required me to not only pressure you and WOT you, but get to the point where I'm getting the town to utterly lynch you!

Before then you had 2 posts that didn't address ANY of the issues I brought up, but instead:

Suggested that I should be lynched, NOT because I'm scum but to prove if webadict is guilty (Which means we stop talking about you, lynch your accuser, then perhaps lynch the one you've been after for a while).

Then... you know, I had to read that second post again and I realize it makes even LESS sense than before.

Dakarian: Ok you guys, Cheeetar is REALLY SUSPICIOUS for deflecting my question about his supicions. I'm not going to vote for him though. So, you guys how do you feel about him maybe we should vote for him if you want to?

I thought you were saying that "I'M" suspicious but you don't want to vote for me.

Instead you're trying to paraphrase my posts?

Did you miss the fact that I started my attack BY voting for you?  I'm your first vote. 



In any case, you took the time to write those two posts without saying ANYTHING about my accusations-other than the deflection, which is just ONE smaller piece of the issue.  Those are your deflections, and defending yourself NOW doesn't help you cover them up.

Oh, and you're still deflecting the most damaging parts:

The fact you were voting with Pandarsenic for most of the day but barely mentioning him at all, even when you thought he was scum (as required for the Bussing argument).  You STILL seem hesitant to mention him.  He's not the Dark One: you can at least say his name.

That your votes are bandwagons rather than personal arguments, with the exception of your day 2 lurker hunt and the Bus argument that you abandoned quick enough.

Also, it seems sort of odd to just go out and scream 'bus' when you felt both people were, before, townish don't you think?

That didn't contain many actual questions, but I'll answer as best I can.
"Instead you're trying to paraphrase my posts?"
Yes.  And I did miss the part where you voted for me.
It didn't seem odd to me to vote for a person who seemed scummy, regardless of his previous behaviour.

[Cheeetar]

I am going to bed now, so it seems I shall be lynched when I wake up. Webadict- Suspicious. Vote for him when I turn out to not be scum. My role is to extend the game to last 6 days, as in have the title be at least Toon Mafia V - Day 6.

[Cheeetar]

And by my role, I mean the aim of my role. I'm Third Party.

[dakarian]

A #&%$# watcher!?

That would explain most of the behavior.  I guess a watcher would be very passive.  You can't defend yourself like anything, but with SkillLevel being taken to account it's plausible.

It also makes me wonder if Cops work the same here as in chatmafia.  Sane, Insane, and Random always read neutrals as neutral (the only quirk is the Stoned Cop which sees EVERYONE as neutral). 

The link with Pandar still looks ugly, but ugly enough to kill? *sigh*

@Mod: When's deadline?  If it's sometime today then I request an extension.

There's 3 mafia at the start, with 1 that's died.  That leaves 2 left. 

When you're confused, it's time to do another Wide Scan!  A smaller one though and focused:

Current claims:

Cheeetar - Watcher
Leafsnail - Cop
JanusTwoFace - scumvig..thing
eduren - Cop
dakarian - Cop

There's a lot of talk about what the 'power roles' are (if you think of the cops as 'regular townies')

Btw:
Hey Vector what did you do last night?

@mod: Can you bring prods on Rashilul and Twiggie?  Both have been AWOL for a while now


As for Cheeetar, letting myself stew on that one for a second.

[Rysith]

Umm, what!?

Deciding whether someone is scum or not is the entire POINT to the day game.  The cop sanity has NOTHING to do with Cheeetar's stance.  All cop sanity is at this point is a mini-game that the 'cops' now have to play to figure out who is who, sanity wise: right now we're best just to ignore it for the time being until something useful comes out.

Instead, we're here to scumhunt the NORMAL way.  Since Cheeetar is being accused by traditional means, whether he becomes today's lynch is VERY much on the table.

I'll admit that you've been seeming less scummy with your explanations, though, so I'll unvote and vote Cheeetar, pending his answer to your ultimatum. It would be a FOS, but I'm voting since I'm not entirely sure when the day ends and, without a response from Cheeetar that's another point against him.

Is there something in the argument in particular you don't like about him and want answers to, or are you meaning to be vague at the moment?  It seems odd since your other votes had a bigger piece of your mind attached than a standard bandwagon.

Same as I said D1, I feel like Day 2 with questionable investigations is a bit early to turn into "Is X scum?" rather than "Who is looking scummy?". Thus, what I objected to wasn't "Cheeetar is looking scummy", but the "Either vote for him or argue with me about him!"

As for things in particular: The chief scummy thing from Cheeetar was the total passivity in the face of your attacks, neither really answering your questions nor attempting anything on his own. He's since (sort of) taken responsibility for his votes, and pointed at Webadict, but those both seem very weak, especially given that he's claimed Watcher now.

Further, I'm not actually sure that I trust the watcher claim: I'd expect a watcher to be going for ties and NLs rather than voting for someone, especially climbing onto existing bandwagons and going after lurkers. Lurkers help watchers, so if he's a watcher there isn't a reason for him to go after them.

[Leafsnail]

Hmm... well, a Doomspeaker is anti-town, and I have a feeling that he's not telling us that we'll all lose on Day 6 if he does.  He may have abilities such as a global roleblock or JoAT maneuvers, so I'll unvote and vote cheeetar.

I may go back and check the cop claims.  It would make sense if there were one more cop, in which case we may have the Dephy setup.  As I said, from my flavour text, I'd guess Naive for myself, but I'm not sure.

[Vector]

Hey Vector what did you do last night?

@mod: Can you bring prods on Rashilul and Twiggie?  Both have been AWOL for a while now

I inspected Rysith.

Also, Rashilul is Webadict.  Twiggie is the one we need to worry about... come to think of it, Twiggie.  We've got enough to lynch, so I might as well try to get the lurkers out here and playing.

[dakarian]

Fakeedit: Oh yah.. Rash is web.  No need to vote for Twiggie since the prod will deal with him.  Once he posts (or gets replaced) we can deal with him.

Btw, Vector, mind sharing what you got from that inspection, both in whether he was innocent or guilty and how the PM sounded?

Meanwhile,
Rysith has a point about the anti-lurker stance: that does seem odd from a watcher that doesn't want much activity.  Meanwhile, Leaf reminded me of how the watcher could cause us some massive headaches down the line.  If he's lying, then that's that.  If he IS a watcher, we might be removing an ugly headache.  My vote never left Cheeetar so it'll remain there.

I'll withdraw the request to Extend, though I still want to know the deadline.

[ToonyMan]

VOTE COUNT:

webadict - Twiggie, Cheeetar [2]
Cheeetar - dakarian, Apostolic, Rysith, Leafsnail [4]
Twiggie - Vector [1]

Not Voting - Webadict, NUKE9.13, JanusTwoFace, eduren [4]

~Day End Friday 8 PM EST~

A prod to Twiggie will be sent.

Whoops, I forgot he needs a replacement.  SOMEONE REPLACE HIM.

[Vector]

Fakeedit: Oh yah.. Rash is web.  No need to vote for Twiggie since the prod will deal with him.  Once he posts (or gets replaced) we can deal with him.

Btw, Vector, mind sharing what you got from that inspection, both in whether he was innocent or guilty and how the PM sounded?

Goddammit.  I'd completely forgotten he'd wanted a replacement.  Unvote.

Meanwhile, Cheeetar.  I can buy your claim, but trying to keep the scum and the town in equilibrium for that long doesn't sound good.  I'd much rather have most of us working for town advantage.


I got scum on Rysith.  I'm not sure about the tone of the PM.  I seem to be being really careful--so I'm guessing I'm paranoid, from the looks of it.

[Cheeetar]

You're not going to all die if it reaches Day 6, I just need some time and peace to complete my goals. Nearly all of you have nothing to fear from me.

[Cheeetar]

I'm the Communist Worker. I can either wait until Day 6 for the revolution to start, as the workers are tired of the stressful conditions with mafia running around, or I can kill the Capitalist Banker and kickstart the revolution. See? I'm harmless. Now I just have to hope that the Capitalist Banker can't nightkill me now that I've publicly roleclaimed.

[dakarian]

As far as the cop thing is concerned, let's get a few ground rules started:

This is a SIDE PROJECT and should NOT take over the main game at the moment.  During the day, we should mostly be scumhunting normally.  It will help us out if we can figure out the truth but, unlike a true Bastard Mod, it's not required to win this one.

Now,

As for the cop matter: we now have 5 cops.  While it's DANGEROUS to assume this is dephy, if we play that card then one of us is a scum faking a cop while everyone else is a true cop with a different sanity.

Our sanities showing off from the flavor text would be fun, but it's too early to assume that.  We might be better off using Dephy logic.. as such:

Dakarian	|	Leafsnail	|	Eduren	|	Archangel	|	Vector
Web-G	|	Web-I	|	Janus-G	|	none	|	Rysith-G
Sane/Rand/Para	|	Sane/Rand/Naiv	|	Sane/Rand/Para	|	Sane/Rand/Naiv/Para	|	Sane/Rand/Para

Now, one way to deal with this is for the folks who found a Guilty last night to find the person they most believe is town and investigate them.  Leaf, meanwhile, will be the hardest.  I'm thinking Twiggy since he might be third party.

The goal is to try to see if our investigations change.  If you can receive an Innocent (or Guilty in Leaf's case) then we know you aren't paranoid/naive and we can go on from there.