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[Doomblade187]

The neccesitated expenditure of finite life spent producing value for the society (at financial gunpoint), is very vexing to me.

As I pointed out previously to Arx, I would rather deal with the harsh, but ultimately fair (all organisms have the same value, without uneven consideration) mistress of nature,  than deal with the fickle and purposefully unbalanced calculus of modern society.

The latter is what is driving the endless exponential growth of energy consumption, and wasteful allocation of resources that will ultimately spell the death of humanity if it is not stopped. I want no part of it.  The best way to do that, is to have no part of it.

I mean, apparently oil refineries underpin the world economy, so there is more than one way.

But yes, I support your right to leave society. It's something that's important, I think, to have that option available.

[Trekkin]

The latter is what is driving the endless exponential growth of energy consumption, and wasteful allocation of resources that will ultimately spell the death of humanity if it is not stopped. I want no part of it.  The best way to do that, is to have no part of it.

This part is what I don't get. Why is having no part of the problem preferable to being part of the solution?

[wierd]

I believe that there cannot be a solution, as long as the system is structured the way it is. There will be no correction of that system, because people are wholly dependent upon it for their way of life, and are unwilling to change it voluntarily, and will respond violently if it is changed involuntarily.

This cycle has been demonstrated many times over the course of human history, where civilizations have run face first into resource depletions, and societies have collapsed completely.

This time though, there is no real place to spread to. I have seen no signs that this time will be any different, and while I am certain there is cogitative bias there, I have seen ample evidence to the contrary. (How many times Trekkin, do you get told about how climate scientists are boys crying wolf, and that there is no danger?)

Essentially, I view that it cannot be stopped; The most I can do is to not contribute to or hasten its coming.

[JoshuaFH]

I really wonder if civilization will simply revert back to being mostly agrarian with villages and kingdoms once fossil fuels run out, and nonrenewable energy fails to take its place. I'm just a layperson, but it seems that once oil runs out, the entirely of the global economy is just going to die, and with it civilization as we know it.

Assuming it's merely a downsizing of the human population, and not a total extinction as we pay for the sins against the environment.

[Naturegirl1999]

I think I heard that fossil fuels are 80% of the total energy of the world. When they run out, energy production will decrease to 1/5 of its current if the other sources stay constant, which I don’t think they will because most of the machines used to harness said energies are assembled with machines that use fossil fuel, So energy production will probably be lower than 1/5

I am a layperson too, giving my 2 cents

[bloop_bleep]

Well, not in practice. If fossil fuels run out, other available energy sources will expand and pick up the slack, since they are no longer competing with fossil fuels. That will in fact happen long before fossil fuels run out if we keep our current trajectory.

[wierd]

Correct, but the economy as a whole is predicated on the notion that perpetual growth (Of either investment, or value gained through products) is sustainable.

It is not.  (after fossil fuels, there will be depletion of all fissile materials, and complete utilization of sunlight, wind, and ocean current waves, with the necessary environmental impacts each of those will impose. Eventually, civilization will HAVE to understand that energy is not infinitely available, and neither are the resources we waste. Like titanium. You cannot realistically reclaim the titanium that is painted all over your walls, for instance. There are others too, like rare earth metals necessary for high technologies. )


As long as the system is predicated on a falsehood of this caliber, it is doomed to collapse.

[Naturegirl1999]

Correct, but the economy as a whole is predicated on the notion that perpetual growth (Of either investment, or value gained through products) is sustainable.

It is not.


As long as the system is predicated on a falsehood of this caliber, it is doomed to collapse.

Yes, this

[Jopax]

My right knee is acting up for some reason. Not sure what's causing it but it's kinda painful to move and I can barely squat because it feels like the damn ligaments around it are going to snap. This is somewhat of an issue since my work requires regular squatting as well as lifting heavy things on occasion (and we always lift with our legs!)

Other than that, general work related fuckassery with bosses trying to push extra pointless work onto everyone and turn everyone against each other in the process, because why the fuck wouldn't they be pulling shit like that when it's clear that it's going to work due to certain people are bloody sycopanths with sticks so far up their asses you could use them as bloody brooms.

[wierd]

Probably local inflammation of the tendons.  This can happen if they rub roughly through the passages through the knee, which causes abrasive injury.

Immobilize the knee with a compression brace, apply a warm compress for 40 minutes, and try an OTC anti-inflammatory. Avoid stressing or using the knee for 24 to 36 hours.


Best "not a doctor" advice I can give.

[Il Palazzo]

I was rewatching that scene from 12 Angry Men, when number 10 goes on an angry racist diatribe to the disgust and consternation of the rest of the jurors, thinking how it's a bit jarring and on the nose with how exaggerated, almost comically so, the portrayal of an old racist geezer is.
Then I realised that the arguments he's spouting are nearly verbatim the same talking points the current POTUS has publicly expressed one time or another during his presidency.
Life imitating art, I suppose.

[Yoink]

It is truly a delightful age we live in, where the wonders of modern technology mean we have an endless array of new reasons to be miserable at our fingertips at any given moment. 
I forgot where I was going with this, I believe I planned on adding another bit after that, maybe a punchline or something, but all the things I am currently displeased about keep distracting me.
Rest assured it would have been just more whinging, anyway.


Also I haven't been checking Bay12 much lately, feels like I've fallen behind somewhat. Sorry about that.



Edit: oh, and of course there are still old-school meatspace annoyances to piss one off, too, just in case one thought one could get a bit of peace by withdrawing from cyberspace for a moment.

[Hanslanda]

I'm viscerally depressed on an existential level.

[Reelya]

I think I heard that fossil fuels are 80% of the total energy of the world. When they run out, energy production will decrease to 1/5 of its current if the other sources stay constant, which I don’t think they will because most of the machines used to harness said energies are assembled with machines that use fossil fuel, So energy production will probably be lower than 1/5

I am a layperson too, giving my 2 cents

Yeah, it doesn't quite work like that. If the price of the fossil fuels starts to rise due to running out, then there are options which are more expensive now that start to become competitive. For example, say that gasoline costs $1.00 to travel 20 miles, and ethanol costs $1.10 to travel 20 miles. No matter how high the price of gasoline goes, the effective cost of traveling 20 miles won't exceed $1.10, since people will switch over to ethanol once the gasoline price is high enough. The point is that for many things, there are alternatives which are slightly more expensive, but we hardly use them because we all choose the cheapest option. So there are under-utilized options which don't really cost much more to produce than the current best options.

[wierd]

Correct.

However, there are consequences to switching, aside from the now higher baseline price difference (eg, 1.10$ vs 1.00$).

In the case of ethanol, you have the reduction in land utility for food in the face of still growing (just at slower speeds) populations, and continued encroachment from land development, along with the environmental impacts of the new toolchain for production and refinement.

Similar stories for pure electric (such as from solar or wind, or from nuclear power).  (then you have scalability issues with lithium remanufacture, issues with reprocessing of rare earth metals besides lithium (like osmium, neodymium, et al), and things of that nature.)

Gasoline is currently king for several outstanding reasons that wont go away with a switch to an "in the wings" solution, such as

1) Highest energy density in the lightest, easiest and safest medium to transport
2) Utilization tech is very simple, made of abundant, and easy to remanufacture materials
3) Has incumbent economies of scale working for it already.

Many areas of society are tied to the costs of transport of goods, and without a substitute that is competitive in those areas, many transport schemes will not be workable any longer, which will start throwing monkey wrenches in lots of other industries downstream that depend on that transport.


Simply running out of gasoline, and switching to another medium when that does, has more consequences than just "It costs marginally more".