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[Max White]

So you need to comnit a crime to actually be part of this "life rebuilding" process? Sounds mighty like a free pass.

No. Why are you making these jumps in logic? If this were mafia you would be lynched by now!
1. You do not need to commit a crime to need help. Far be it, you need help long before you get to that stage.
2. Rebuilding your life isn't a free pass. But why do I care? I don't want criminals to suffer because it doesn't help anybody. Rehabilitating, however, is productive to a community.

You are my only friend.

Oh Tomas, our love wouldn't work if we got along... 

[Phmcw]

If there isn't ever any consequences for ones actions, then what? Everyone is free, including the mentally "sane", to go out, murder everyone that they want, act "sane" (as plenty of the people who don't get the institutions nowadays are capable of), and run off scott free.
That system would cause more damage than it "fixes", really.

The point is that not everybody is sane, and as such we help those that are not rather than punish them. Somebody who commits some horrible crime will always do so for a reason. Because they are poor, so we help them get educated and get a job and support themselves, or because they are mentally disturbed, so we give them therapy to help them.
It is not a free pass. Clearly you have never been to therapy. It is fucking hard work.

So you need to comnit a crime to actually be part of this "life rebuilding" process? Sounds mighty like a free pass.

Everyone actually have somehow access to it, or to many services that can help you rebuild your life, in most developed countries
Of course the access is easier if you've shown clear pathological signs (alcoholism, homelessness, severe depression, criminality....). But you have a lot of tools if you don't as well (free formation, support group, free job advisor... not to mention free health-care and near free education).

[tomas1297]

*Hits ein, Max and Phmcw in the head with a rolled up newspaper*
 I think the death penalty thread is a better place for this so move the discussion there. Left-wings and right-wings will never get together and trying to change the other parties views is pointless. It's like Christianity and Satanism.
 I would argue with the last few posts some more, but I'm getting sick of this.

[Realmfighter]

It's like Christianity and Satanism.

I don't know what just happened, but I feel insulted anyway

[tomas1297]

It's like Christianity and Satanism.

I don't know what just happened, but I feel insulted anyway

 I'm saying that they will never be able to agree and converting them is pointless.

[iceball3]

So you need to comnit a crime to actually be part of this "life rebuilding" process? Sounds mighty like a free pass.

So you need to commit a crime to be thrown in jail and rot for the rest of your life?
Again, the point is to create a society where it's considered acceptable to seek help~
As it is, people prone to murder or rape are simply shunned, and given nothing~
Furthermore, the existence of a death penalty is a very poor deterrent~
A mentally unstable person will still feel compelled to kill or rape, regardless of its existence~

Poor analogy, but think of the man who steals bread to feed himself and his starving family~
Despite knowing he'll have his hands cut off if he gets caught, he does anyway~
It's not an issue of 'oh, I'll get punished if I do this,' it's an issue of 'I have to do this'~
A mentally unstable person feels the same way~
They don't want to kill, they feel the need to~

If you seek help then you need to seek help. Really, some people actually have to be responsible for their actions. If you kill someone, you are responsible for putting them out existence forever. Just as well, even in a much better economy we still can't pay off the money needed, because better economy is going to ultimately result in more people. Too much to "help", just as it is the economy now.

[tomas1297]

 I remember when this was about which place would be nicer to live in...

[ein]

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[Max White]

If you seek help then you need to seek help. Really, some people actually have to be responsible for their actions. If you kill someone, you are responsible for putting them out existence forever. Just as well, even in a much better economy we still can't pay off the money needed, because better economy is going to ultimately result in more people. Too much to "help", just as it is the economy now.

So... Killing people is ok because of the economy being strong enough to be attractive to people living in third world conditions?
I was unaware George Bush had a b12 account.

[iceball3]

If you seek help then you need to seek help. Really, some people actually have to be responsible for their actions. If you kill someone, you are responsible for putting them out existence forever. Just as well, even in a much better economy we still can't pay off the money needed, because better economy is going to ultimately result in more people. Too much to "help", just as it is the economy now.

So... Killing people is ok because of the economy being strong enough to be attractive to people living in third world conditions?
I was unaware George Bush had a b12 account.

I'm not agreeing with that. I'm saying THEIR system won't work because there will never be enough money to enforce it.

[tomas1297]

(response to inappropriate content removed)

 Yeah, the north of Europe is nice. I'd prefer Sweden though. I think they pay the best in the north. Also my favorite bands are from there. And I like winters, especially when I remember how much I hate hot summers. So hot outside now. :<

<snip>

Maaaaaaaax! You already posted in the death penalty thread. Stay there!

<snip>

I don't love you anymore, just because you're continuing this.

[Max White]

Maaaaaaaax! You already posted in the death penalty thread. Stay there!

Can't help it man, it's just a part of me! Must fight the power! I am compelled to be compelled!

[tomas1297]

Maaaaaaaax! You already posted in the death penalty thread. Stay there!

Can't help it man, it's just a part of me! Must fight the power! I am compelled to be compelled!

Not being able to control himself makes a person stupid. So control yourself.

[ein]

(inappropriate content removed)

[tomas1297]

(response to inappropriate content removed)