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[Vester]

Actually that would be interesting. If a soul could be destroyed, the object it informed would cease to exist completely - real annihilation. That's impossible, of course, but one can dream.

[Jackrabbit]

And of course, there's Carrot Top. Proof that the soul may be destroyed, but the body may linger on.

[Armok]

This thread has become oxymoron... I wont even try to correct it, suffice to say I'm mostly transhumanist, and according to me transferring the mind to a computer is not only possible, but can be done with a keyboard some knowledge of relevant sciences, and a few years of introspecting, diciplining your mind into an easily transferable format, inventivness, and coding like crazy. If you want imortality, start thinking and working on it, dont expect it to be given it free by some organization or deity.

EDIT: This is somewhat relevant to this thread!

[Sean Mirrsen]

Actually that would be interesting. If a soul could be destroyed, the object it informed would cease to exist completely - real annihilation. That's impossible, of course, but one can dream.

I think a soul seems to be rather a side-effect of a body's existence rather than the cause of its existence, so I'd say it is impossible to rid anything - or anyone - of its soul. You can likely blank it out, effectively erasing the "information imprint" I was talking about earlier, but whatever information remains with the body will just as likely make itself a new imprint. Some information may be lost in the process, and a person's personality (if it's a person we're talking about) will likely undergo a drastic change, but it will not mean complete destruction.

[Vester]

Actually that would be interesting. If a soul could be destroyed, the object it informed would cease to exist completely - real annihilation. That's impossible, of course, but one can dream.

I think a soul seems to be rather a side-effect of a body's existence rather than the cause of its existence, so I'd say it is impossible to rid anything - or anyone - of its soul. You can likely blank it out, effectively erasing the "information imprint" I was talking about earlier, but whatever information remains with the body will just as likely make itself a new imprint. Some information may be lost in the process, and a person's personality (if it's a person we're talking about) will likely undergo a drastic change, but it will not mean complete destruction.

Well, "soul" is the thing that makes you what you are. Like bricks. Bricks have "soul". That's why I'm uncomfortable with using the word, but "formative principle" is so unwieldy.

Now, consciousness and personality is a different thing from "soul" as "formative principle". It's like instances, as you mentioned - a memory and personality transfer to another body would recreate you - but not the instance of you that was previously destroyed. Like, it will be a Vester, and there will also have been another Vester - they're identical except for their location in time (and space).

This thread has become oxymoron... I wont even try to correct it, suffice to say I'm mostly transhumanist, and according to me transferring the mind to a computer is not only possible, but can be done with a keyboard some knowledge of relevant sciences, and a few years of introspecting, diciplining your mind into an easily transferable format, inventivness, and coding like crazy. If you want imortality, start thinking and working on it, dont expect it to be given it free by some organization or deity.

"Transferring the mind" by transferring memory would just create another you, but it won't be YOU you. If you tried that, for example, your original consciousness would be annihilated, while creating a new one in a new mind. It'll be an Armok, but not the instance of Armok that posted the post I'm replying to. That one will be dead.

[Armok]

"Transferring the mind" by transferring memory would just create another you, but it won't be YOU you. If you tried that, for example, your original consciousness would be annihilated, while creating a new one in a new mind. It'll be an Armok, but not the instance of Armok that posted the post I'm replying to. That one will be dead.

That's what the disciplining is for, culling unnecessary complication in your personality in order to compress it enough to be transferable. It's extremely hard to copy the mess that a human mind is, but one can change their mind so it becomes transferable.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Actually that would be interesting. If a soul could be destroyed, the object it informed would cease to exist completely - real annihilation. That's impossible, of course, but one can dream.

I think a soul seems to be rather a side-effect of a body's existence rather than the cause of its existence, so I'd say it is impossible to rid anything - or anyone - of its soul. You can likely blank it out, effectively erasing the "information imprint" I was talking about earlier, but whatever information remains with the body will just as likely make itself a new imprint. Some information may be lost in the process, and a person's personality (if it's a person we're talking about) will likely undergo a drastic change, but it will not mean complete destruction.

What, information is 'immortal' ?

[TheNewerMartianEmperor]

"Transferring the mind" by transferring memory would just create another you, but it won't be YOU you. If you tried that, for example, your original consciousness would be annihilated, while creating a new one in a new mind. It'll be an Armok, but not the instance of Armok that posted the post I'm replying to. That one will be dead.

That's what the disciplining is for, culling unnecessary complication in your personality in order to compress it enough to be transferable. It's extremely hard to copy the mess that a human mind is, but one can change their mind so it becomes transferable.

That still won't be you. Also, just what do you think is unnecessary? There are reasons for the complexity of human psychology.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Actually that would be interesting. If a soul could be destroyed, the object it informed would cease to exist completely - real annihilation. That's impossible, of course, but one can dream.

I think a soul seems to be rather a side-effect of a body's existence rather than the cause of its existence, so I'd say it is impossible to rid anything - or anyone - of its soul. You can likely blank it out, effectively erasing the "information imprint" I was talking about earlier, but whatever information remains with the body will just as likely make itself a new imprint. Some information may be lost in the process, and a person's personality (if it's a person we're talking about) will likely undergo a drastic change, but it will not mean complete destruction.

What, information is 'immortal' ?

In a certain sense, yes. Information is simply a structure. You can completely destroy it, but it can be infinitely copied and renewed without loss. As long as the energy/matter that is used to form the information can exist, information can exist as well.

[Armok]

"Transferring the mind" by transferring memory would just create another you, but it won't be YOU you. If you tried that, for example, your original consciousness would be annihilated, while creating a new one in a new mind. It'll be an Armok, but not the instance of Armok that posted the post I'm replying to. That one will be dead.

That's what the disciplining is for, culling unnecessary complication in your personality in order to compress it enough to be transferable. It's extremely hard to copy the mess that a human mind is, but one can change their mind so it becomes transferable.

That still won't be you. Also, just what do you think is unnecessary? There are reasons for the complexity of human psychology.

well, humanity is overestimated, and I have already done enormous disciplining that it's debatable if I count as human. (lets not derail to far...)Unnecessary parts include irrational mannerisms (try to keep your speech consistent hand have a reason behind every action), complex interpersonal relationships (keep your recreational/social comunication to recorded text over the net, and have unrecordable IRL relations be only simple buisnis and not going beyond the necesery), spesific nostagias (get past events in such a way that the memory is not a part of who you are), complex personality traits (one can describe many clear personalities with a series of numbers as short as the data in DF; make sure your personality is one if them) etc. Basicaly, evrything that cant be derived from a few core concepts, belifs, and themes, or simply mesured with numbers. This is obviously grossly simplified and on top of that vary extremly  much from person to person, so if you want to do it yourself this is of no help. Also it dosnt work on evry mind, some are yous out of luck.
Also, a few things in this post are intentionally incorrect, to cover up a few private life events that makes me extremely suited for this kind of transfer.

[TheNewerMartianEmperor]

That isn't human, or you armok. That's eliminating everything that makes you, well... you. Irrational mannerisms are part of yourself, tiny touches to make a man. Relationships, whether with a great gaggle of friends, or just a few close companions are one of the worlds greatest pleasures. We must remember the past, remember it all, the good and the bad, as without them we are but drifters, unknowing and uncaring of the stream of consciousness that makes us feel the universe on the multitude of levels we do. As for complex personality traits, they are you. They are what make you unique. Ridding yourself of them is just another form of destroying who you are, and will make you into another cookie-cutter piece of code.

[blah28722]

well, humanity is overestimated, and I have already done enormous disciplining that it's debatable if I count as human. (lets not derail to far...)Unnecessary parts include irrational mannerisms (try to keep your speech consistent hand have a reason behind every action), complex interpersonal relationships (keep your recreational/social comunication to recorded text over the net, and have unrecordable IRL relations be only simple buisnis and not going beyond the necesery), spesific nostagias (get past events in such a way that the memory is not a part of who you are), complex personality traits (one can describe many clear personalities with a series of numbers as short as the data in DF; make sure your personality is one if them) etc. Basicaly, evrything that cant be derived from a few core concepts, belifs, and themes, or simply mesured with numbers. This is obviously grossly simplified and on top of that vary extremly  much from person to person, so if you want to do it yourself this is of no help. Also it dosnt work on evry mind, some are yous out of luck.
Also, a few things in this post are intentionally incorrect, to cover up a few private life events that makes me extremely suited for this kind of transfer.

There's more to a person's psyche than emotion-levels and memories.

I'm not sure why you'd make a few intentional mistakes, considering I'm the only one only some people no one on Bay12 would really have the means to transfer a mind.

Damn. Ninja'd.

[Armok]

That isn't human, or you armok. That's eliminating everything that makes you, well... you. Irrational mannerisms are part of yourself, tiny touches to make a man. Relationships, whether with a great gaggle of friends, or just a few close companions are one of the worlds greatest pleasures. We must remember the past, remember it all, the good and the bad, as without them we are but drifters, unknowing and uncaring of the stream of consciousness that makes us feel the universe on the multitude of levels we do. As for complex personality traits, they are you. They are what make you unique. Ridding yourself of them is just another form of destroying who you are, and will make you into another cookie-cutter piece of code.

Such is the price of immortality, I guess. It is not something to be done light-heartedly, trimming away pieces of your self in order to fit a round might thought a square bottleneck.

[redacted123]

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[Jude]

"Transferring the mind" by transferring memory would just create another you, but it won't be YOU you. If you tried that, for example, your original consciousness would be annihilated, while creating a new one in a new mind. It'll be an Armok, but not the instance of Armok that posted the post I'm replying to. That one will be dead.

That's no different from your brain cells changing in configuration, or every particle in your body being replaced. The idea that your mind has some essence that will not be preserved by recreating your brain in every detail is...well, it's essentialism. But there is no essence. Your brain is constantly changing anyway; the you of now will be dead five minutes from now, not to mention five years, and will be annihilated in just the same sense that "you" would be if you "transferred" your mind.

When I'm dead, I want my burial to be either badass - namely, put me in a longboat, send that shit out to sea on fire - or else practical - stick me in the ground without a coffin and plant a fruit tree on top of it or something. If some religions are right, and it's the immortal soul that counts and not the body, then that should be no problem for God. If old-fashioned Judaism is right and there's no immortal soul, just a body that God will resurrect (which is more consistent with what science tells us about consciousness, I guess) then I'd trust God to be omnipotent enough to reassemble my body and hence, my consciousness from whatever spare particles are about.

That brings up the other question of afterlife - resurrection conflicts with essentialism in the same way "mind  transferring" does. If my body rots away and then God resurrects it out of (presumably) other particles, then I, my memories and my consciousness would still be intact, but it would not be the "same" consciousness I had all through life. But, that's a moot point as I said above, since consciousness is always in flux and by definition changes all the time.