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[tsen]

I was also thinking about personality affecting artifact materials choice. It would be a cool way to do things, in my opinion.

[Lord Shonus]

While artifact doesn't have a set meaning, it does have an analouge in real life. When working with handcrafts, some things came out so far ahead of the rest that they're a step beyond even a masterpeice. Michelangelo created several works of art that qualify as masterpieces, but he only painted one Sistine Chapel.

[Derakon]

He also only painted one Mona Lisa, which goes against the "one artifact per dwarf" rule.

[tsen]

Clearly the limit is different for humans--

New race RAW entry!

[Sunken]

He also only painted one Mona Lisa, which goes against the "one artifact per dwarf" rule.

Wrong guy, Derakon... (Substitute David, maybe?)

[HatfieldCW]

"Artifact" is related in the game to the do-or-die moods and possessions that afflict your guys from time to time.  I can't think of a real-world analogy, but the moods and possessions are totally irrational.  The dwarf will leave his sickbed and crawl on bloody stumps to a workshop, collect materials of a specific nature and in a specific order, and then build the thing for days or weeks with no concern for hunger, thirst, rampaging elephants or goblin hordes.  If they fail in their quest for any reason, whether it be the destruction of the workshop their in or just the wrong kind of cloth available, they go totally insane and die, possibly taking some of their friends and family with them.

[Granite26]

Personally, I feel that the Great Renny's speak more to the need to make MW items and MW capable people more rare... OR rather, the highest (non-artifact) quality.  Take the .5-1 as substandard, 1 as normal, and 1-1.5 being good.  Allow quality levels from 1.5 to 2 or even 3 to be legendary only, with only 1 actor in 100 ever getting legendary, and the ultra high (rescale masterwork to 1.5) levels only available to legendary and even then only very rarely (So, a legendary normally gets 1.5, but 20% get 1.6, 10% 1.7, 5% 1.8 or some such)

Anyway, more quality levels with a chance to get significantly above (or below) your normal quality level means that legendaries could occasionally hit super-high rare qualities, which better maps history.

[tsen]

Agreed, Granite. If not for game balance, to stop me from getting spammed with the messages!

[Pilsu]

Don't get carried away with damage modifiers, it'll quickly make lower end goods useless. Increases in effectiveness should suffer heavy diminishing returns, something like

• x1.5
• x1.7
• x1.8
• x1.9
• x2.0

Masterworks aren't particularly rare nor should they be seeing as it's a real life concept. Spam will be handled with the changes to the announcement system. As for Legendary, that's just a matter of reputation. Not some magical level of skill that makes you break the laws of reality

[Granite26]

Masterworks aren't particularly rare nor should they be seeing as it's a real life concept.

It's the SHOULD I disagree with.  Artifacts are designed to be the 'unreal' Superman item... MW are the Captain America of items.

I think they SHOULD be rare and analgous to real life masterpieces.

[Pilsu]

Every last guild member had produced at least one, doesn't seem too rare to me.

[Silverionmox]

Every last guild member had produced at least one, doesn't seem too rare to me.

The masters of the guild, by definition the elite minority of the guild.. Likewise a masterpiece is exceptionally good compared against the average. So in a given game world, I would expect at most 5% of eg. the furniture to be masterpieces.

[Granite26]

Every last guild member had produced at least one, doesn't seem too rare to me.

I'll give you that... I just don't think 'masterwork' by THAT definition should be the paragon of normal(non-artifact) dwarven craftsmanship.  I agree... Masterwork of the 'you aren't a journeyman anymore' type could be relatively common, but if you are going to say masterwork means that, it shouldn't be the best a legendary dwarf can make.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Historically a Masterpiece was the piece make by a Journeyman to prove his competency as a Master, it was the craftsman equivalent of a PHD thesis.

But the Masterpiece was actually not representative of the everyday work that a Master craftsman would do, it was intentionally over-done, "tricked out" so to say, the journeyman had to demonstrate as many different techniques as possible on that one piece.  They were often so over-done as to be somewhat gaudy and tacky and the clash of different techies could be aesthetically jarring.  The current system for Artifacts actually more closely resembles a these masterpiece with its over-abundance of materials and decorations.  Masterpieces derived their value more from their uniqueness and sentiment then their ascetic desirability, a bit like a rookie baseball card or a famous player.

If we wanted to be more correct then each time a dwarf levels up in a skill to certain levels they will initiate an Artifact like build order (perhaps with a lower urgency though) and create an overly tricked out item of the appropriate quality level.  This would make Masterpieces rarer and more historically accurate.

[Pilsu]

A Master has a 7.7% chance of producing a masterpiece masterful item. Grand Master 12.2%. Only ludicrously legendary artisans have a 20+% chance of producing one and I don't much care for those ranks to begin with since they aren't even displayed. It's really not that high

Do remember that exceptional means something. You want more quality ranks? Why the hell? Legendary crafters already make mostly exceptional or above work, how much more impressive are you gonna get?


Impaler's idea works, sort of. Not being able to join the guild wouldn't stop your skill progression, it'd be more of a matter of Master+ artisans requesting goods for their thesis as a separate game mechanic. They probably wouldn't be too happy to get denied for a long time. Masterpiece needn't actually be masterful either, exceptional will suffice. I guess anything below that would fail their application. Only about a 6.7% chance of that

Just to note, masterful items are only referred to as masterpieces in the announcement system. Unless I forgot something, there should be no conflict between masterful work and any masterpiece mechanic