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[FuzzyZergling]

I disagree with Dave's opinion on time travel, but I think he's spot on about not giving a shit about LE.

[Mageziya]

So I've been thinking as to what lead to this Grimbark fiasco in the first place. The most direct thing that caused this was the B1 Fall of Prospit. This lead to Dream-Jade's death, which lead to Jadesprite, which lead to Dog-Tier, which ultimately allowed )(IC to control Jade.

  Okay, so what caused Prospit's fall? Jack Noir. How? The Black Queen's ring. How did he get the ring, or in other words, why? He refused to wear the Harlequin uniform. What caused the Harlequin uniform to be put in place? John's pre-entry prototype of the Harlequin Doll. How did he get the doll? A gift from Dad-Egbert. Why? Because of John's subconscious Harlequin scribblings on his walls, which lead his dad to believe he had a genuine interest in them. Why did John draw these? Because of his nightmare's caused by Gamzee. Why did Gamzee do this? A combo of sobering up plus the "Miracles" video Dave sent Gamzee. Who gave the video to Dave? Betty Crocker.

  In the most absurd loop imaginable, )(IC set in motion the actions that lead to her control of a powerful, part first guardian, space player. All in all, I doubt )(IC had this much foresight. I think it might of been because of an order by L.E. to send Gamzee over the edge so he could start working towards L.E.'s uprising.

  However, that is in the past of paradox space, and nothing can change that. And before you say John, keep in mind how drastically different the story would be if these actions had not happened, and how that would affect the current story. It would cause Homestuck to drag on for another 4 years. All we can do is hope the Grimbark fiasco is resolved peacefully in the present. Aww, who am I kidding? Jade is going to die, I don't want it to happen, but it probably will.

[FuzzyZergling]

Why stop at Betty Crocker/HIC? Go one step further, and blame Insane Clown Posse themselves!
It was all their plan to get elected presidents in another universe!

[Liber celi]

I disagree with Dave's opinion on time travel, but I think he's spot on about not giving a shit about LE.

The thing is, the only reason you ever want to time travel in the Homestuck multiverse is because you know already you will time travel.
The smallest misstep will hoist you off the finely woven chain of paradox causality(lcompare Mageziya's observation above as an example) that is the alpha timeline and doom you and your friends to a slow death by cosmical neglect. And these missteps are impossible to avoid anyway much of the time. And if I interprete Terezi's little coin trick when Dave asked her for god tier correctly, all possible timelines exist anyway, wither and die, and are subsequently permakilled.

If time travel really is necessary, Dave will know. No need to take risks.

That being said, there is other timey wimey stuff he definitely should be able to do. But he has no reason to show it off to the enemy. Until now because I would be very upset if WV kicks the pain bucket all the way to hell.

E:

Why stop at Betty Crocker/HIC? Go one step further, and blame Insane Clown Posse themselves!
It was all their plan to get elected presidents in another universe!

I personally blame the rap music!

[Remuthra]

And the Insane Clown Posse was controlled by aliens. And the supreme ruling council of the aliens is the History Channel. And the history channel controls the past, which is an aspect of time, which brings us right back around to Lord English, who is being manipulated by HIC. It's a loop!

[Putnam]

ICP was inspired by Lord English in Homestuck canon. So look who we're back to, the bastard.

[Mageziya]

I was initially going to say it was Dave's fault, then I remembered who he got the video from.

[Mageziya]

UPDATE

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Two things. One, Dave superhero. Two, According to logic, WV is close enough to the !!lava!! that if he were to just float there, his wrap would catch on fire.

[Liber celi]

You forgetting it's

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

videogame lava out of that one clockwork level every platform jumper has.

I was initially going to say it was Dave's fault, then I remembered who he got the video from.

HIC created her own enslaver. Deep, man, deeeep.

Which leads us back to the question: why does she think now she has a chance against the master of shity loops? What is her actual plan?

[Mageziya]

You forgetting it's

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

videogame lava out of that one clockwork level every platform jumper has.

I was initially going to say it was Dave's fault, then I remembered who he got the video from.

HIC created her own enslaver. Deep, man, deeeep.

Which leads us back to the question: why does she think now she has a chance against the master of shitty loops? What is her actual plan?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It probably is just hot kool-aid for all we know. It's rippling at the base of the apartment, and doesn't match the profile of real lava at all.

Anyway, I think the reason )(IC thinks she needs Dave is because he's a time player. She thinks she needs someone of equal capability in such complex ability. Here's what everyone forgets, and the characters don't realize. There's another time player. Aradia.

[Rolan7]

And Damara, but she and Gamzee seem actually loyal to LE (instead of quasi-loyal like HIC).

[Remuthra]

And Damara, but she and Gamzee seem actually loyal to LE (instead of quasi-loyal like HIC).

A quasiloyal quasiroyal?

[Slayerhero90]

Goddamnit Dave don't be heroic.

[penguinofhonor]

If Dave has to die to save WV, it will be the most acceptable death in all of Homestuck.

[Remuthra]

*Zap* *Catch* *Zap*

I'm calling it now.