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[Solifuge]

Anyone notice Vriska's 8 eyes?

huh.

Yeah, when Aradia murdalized her, her dream-self woke up, and had none of the injuries incurred by the exploding Cueball of Prophecy.

Also, this makes me wonder... can the Trolls still win their session if the kids get their paradox-ducks in a row?

[Duke 2.0]

I came to a revelation today on why Vriska doesn't piss me the hell off anymore. I don't see her on the same side as the 'good guys' anymore, she has become a villain character. And as such I can appreciate how likable she is in how despicable she is. But I WILL get pissy if she is compared to the other 'kids' on the same level of 'good guys.'

 So yeah, whoo Vriska.

And here I thought I had it figured out on why you hated Vriska so much.

Duke 2.0 ♠ Vriska

Shame I didn't get to bust this out while you were in the middle of ranting about Vriska. I was waiting for it, too. But now it seems that window of opportunity has passed. Oh well.

 Yeah, I'm cool with this.

[Jim Groovester]

Nice of you to come around, though your timing isn't very good. You start to like Vriska just as the troll arc ends? That's a lot of time wasted hating Vriska when you could have taken pleasure in her abuse of her friends.

And then there's this scratch business. I'm guessing Jade breaks the game somehow in the kids' session, because Jade is very good at breaking the game. And I'm guessing it's going to involve Becquerel, though that was probably obvious at this point.

All this exposition Aradia's doing makes me feel really sorry for her. She's a complete slave to destiny or fate or time predestination or whatever. She has absolutely no free will despite being capable of it and she's aware that this is the case. She even had a taste of free will for a moment, before it was taken away from her, by herself no less.

How much more of a prisoner can you be when your future self takes away your own free will? No wonder FAA sounds just like ghost AA.

Yeah, when Aradia murdalized her, her dream-self woke up, and had none of the injuries incurred by the exploding Cueball of Prophecy.

So I guess Aradia killed Vriska then? That's pretty brutal.

Though maybe Vriska, being the power gamer that she is, swapped bodies of her own accord, so that she could regain her arm and vision eightfold. I think that ignores the clear implication that Aradia killed Vriska, though, but it is an alternate explanation.

[Aqizzar]

And then there's this scratch business. I'm guessing Jade breaks the game somehow in the kids' session, because Jade is very good at breaking the game. And I'm guessing it's going to involve Becquerel, though that was probably obvious at this point.

As a matter of fact, the very first time we hear from ol' carcinoGeneticist, that's exactly what he's talking about-

CG: SO I GUESS TODAY IS FINALLY THE DAY YOU FUCK EVERYTHING UP.
GG: >:O
CG: IS THERE NOTHING I CAN DO TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Remains to be seen just what, but I somehow doubt it's going to be as simple or straightforward as prototyping with Bec's body or something.

All this exposition Aradia's doing makes me feel really sorry for her. She's a complete slave to destiny or fate or time predestination or whatever. She has absolutely no free will despite being capable of it and she's aware that this is the case. She even had a taste of free will for a moment, before it was taken away from her, by herself no less.

How much more of a prisoner can you be when your future self takes away your own free will? No wonder FAA sounds just like ghost AA.

I recall Terezi or somebody trying to talk her out of this attitude.  I honestly don't think she's a "slave" to anything but her own sense of importance.  Yes, her Ultimate Crisis Fugue Army was key to saving the Trolls against the granddaddy of all boss fights, but I get the drift that it was at least partially by her own mechanizations, she just doesn't see it that way.  And the babbling of the Dark Gods, left over from when she still had a body on Derse.

Though maybe Vriska, being the power gamer that she is, swapped bodies of her own accord, so that she could regain her arm and vision eightfold. I think that ignores the clear implication that Aradia killed Vriska, though, but it is an alternate explanation.

That would be cute and all, but yeah, this doesn't seem like one that can be over-thought.  Sure will fuck up a lot of fanart, now that it's understood that post-Sgrub Vriska doesn't have her robot arm, and even ditched the old jeweled eyepatch in favor of just flaunting the Creepyeye.

[CobaltKobold]

That's... actually entirely possible.

Wait, does she still have a frog part? We haven't seen her logs since after she got soulbotted.

Now we have ==> yes
no hero gamzee? A different angle on this page would've allowed it. It's not like there's a shortage of Soulbots to use as cameras.

How much more of a prisoner can you be when your future self takes away your own free will? No wonder FAA sounds just like ghost AA.

Your future self has already decided what you are about to do.  Now realise that this is true without time shenanigans, and I'll watch the fireworks.

[Soadreqm]

So I guess Aradia killed Vriska then? That's pretty brutal.

That hasn't been conclusively proven! Aradia gave Vriska a beating, and six hundred hours later, she was dead. Actually, I think that by this point, they've all died, except for Sollux, who has died twice. That doesn't mean Aradia hunted them down one by one. Actually, you can't even prove she attacked Vriska in this timeline. Except for one, the robot swarm comes from doomed alternate timelines, which would mean that either the "Make her pay"-timeline was one of those, or the last thing Aradia did before taking out the Black King was beat Vriska up.

Okay, now I can't shake the mental image of Aradia killing the other trolls for no reason just to create more dead-end timelines.

As for Aradia being a slave of her own temporal machinations, yeah, I think Kanaya had the right idea about that. Karkat thinks that Glb'golyb was prototyped because of the curse he brought on the trolls, due to his tendency to perceive events as inherently negative and against him. Aradia thinks it was always inevitable because of Skaian machinations, due to her perception of the future as inevitable. Vriska probably suspects some kind of conspiracy. And Gamzee thinks it's a miracle. Aradia could change the future, but doesn't even try, because she views the future as immutable.

Your future self has already decided what you are about to do.  Now realise that this is true without time shenanigans, and I'll watch the fireworks.

But without time shenanigans, my future self does not exist in any meaningful way. I will have decided what I was going to do in the future, but I haven't decided it YET. I have now decided what I was going to do in the past, but in the past I could still have changed these choices.

Also,

I came to a revelation today on why Vriska doesn't piss me the hell off anymore. I don't see her on the same side as the 'good guys' anymore, she has become a villain character. And as such I can appreciate how likable she is in how despicable she is. But I WILL get pissy if she is compared to the other 'kids' on the same level of 'good guys.'

 So yeah, whoo Vriska.

She seems to have stopped killing and crippling her friends for now, and is working together with them to defeat the Black King and later troll the humans. I don't see why you would view her as a villain. She's definitely a protagonist.

Just pointing this out to annoy you.

[Jim Groovester]

Actually, you can't even prove she attacked Vriska in this timeline.

Can too!

The Black King fight is the diverging point for all those doomed timelines. The army of doomed Aradias returns to that point because that's when they can actually change the outcome of their doomed timelines, as opposed to earlier or later. Because the Black King fight is the diverging point, everything preceding that point is effectively set in temporal stone, meaning that in the alpha timeline Aradia really did beat the crap out of Vriska and did likely kill her, because that all preceded the Black King fight.

As for Aradia being a slave of her own temporal machinations, yeah, I think Kanaya had the right idea about that. Karkat thinks that Glb'golyb was prototyped because of the curse he brought on the trolls, due to his tendency to perceive events as inherently negative and against him. Aradia thinks it was always inevitable because of Skaian machinations, due to her perception of the future as inevitable. Vriska probably suspects some kind of conspiracy. And Gamzee thinks it's a miracle. Aradia could change the future, but doesn't even try, because she views the future as immutable.

I recall Terezi or somebody trying to talk her out of this attitude.  I honestly don't think she's a "slave" to anything but her own sense of importance.  Yes, her Ultimate Crisis Fugue Army was key to saving the Trolls against the granddaddy of all boss fights, but I get the drift that it was at least partially by her own mechanizations, she just doesn't see it that way.  And the babbling of the Dark Gods, left over from when she still had a body on Derse.

Hmm. You two might have a point. Karkat is in near constant contact with his future and past selves, and he still has free will. Maybe that's because he doesn't have a perfect knowledge of what's going to happen, or maybe he does just to spite himself in the future.

I guess Aradia doesn't see the point in ignoring the orders of her future selves, so that's why she doesn't try and go against them.

[Duke 2.0]

Hmm. You two might have a point. Karkat is in near constant contact with his future and past selves, and he still has free will. Maybe that's because he doesn't have a perfect knowledge of what's going to happen, or maybe he does just to spite himself in the future.

Karkat: His hate for anything and everything is so strong it breaks time.

 And we really have yet to see enough of anybody close enough to determine if Vriska is still an evil bastard. It has also come to the point where I can like her for what we know she is as a villain and look forward to her growing up a bit for the finale so she becomes one of the heroes.

 And Aqizzar, your Recommended Shipping Material seems broken now.

[Hawkfrost]

Maybe the reason so many timelines failed was because Vriska's dice roll didn't hit the miracle number in those.

[Duke 2.0]

 The multiverse just sort of works like that, dice or no dice. There is a timeline for every little variation. If one atom somewhere in the universe vibrates in the opposite direction as usual in the infinite void of space that does not effect any other atom a new timelines is created. A new one is made for every single other particle of existence in the universe, and every variation of some of them vibrating differently and others vibrating the same as the current universe.

 The whole "All matter in the universe could just do something small differently to cause a completely different timeline" already outshines the rather small number of timelines spawned by the die roll. There are more timelines of the variations of how the dice rolled on the ground to the perfect numbers all around than there are different failled dice roll timelines.

[Outcast Orange]

First I will say that the idea of alternate timelines is moronic.

Homestuck can make use of them all it wants though, since it is so confusing that there is probably some variable somewhere
 that is causing them to be different.

I do not think the Aradia bots were saving their own timelines.
If they all shared the timeline with a billion Aradia bots, then they all wouldn't be failed timelines.
Look at it this way: There are a billion games where only one Aradia is there to fight.
Obvious fail. But if all of those failed Aradias jump to another timeline (terrible act of self sacrifice)
then at least one Aradia can make it through.

[cerapa]

Im imagining that Aradia just kept jumping back in time after losing until there was just the right amount to defeat the king.

[Soadreqm]

Actually, you can't even prove she attacked Vriska in this timeline.

Can too!

The Black King fight is the diverging point for all those doomed timelines. The army of doomed Aradias returns to that point because that's when they can actually change the outcome of their doomed timelines, as opposed to earlier or later. Because the Black King fight is the diverging point, everything preceding that point is effectively set in temporal stone, meaning that in the alpha timeline Aradia really did beat the crap out of Vriska and did likely kill her, because that all preceded the Black King fight.

How do you figure the fight against the Black King is the common diverging point for all the timelines those doomed Aradiabots are coming from? There could be any number of things that make the game unwinnable. Dave had to travel back in time to stop John from dying on day one, and the trolls were playing a harder game for more time. What I think is happening that every time Aradia fixes an error in the timeline, she skips to the end to fight the Black King to remove herself from the game. She's doomed anyway. Although I guess this means that she did attack Vriska: that was not a doomed timeline, that was a successful timeline, made such in part by Aradia attacking Vriska.

As for Vriska, well, she's stopped killing and crippling her friends. She actually hasn't done that since she blinded Terezi, and there's no hint that she is going to start again in the future. Does that make her "good"? I'm afraid that by the extremely low troll moral standards, the answer might be yes.

[CobaltKobold]

I guess she's not using this power to save herself because, well, being dead amplified her psychic powers, right?

[Soadreqm]

I guess she's not using this power to save herself because, well, being dead amplified her psychic powers, right?

You mean, like... travel back in time TO ALTERNIA? Is that even possible? I mean, I can see some ways it could be, but no one has ever brought it up as a viable strategy. She could jump in one of Skaia's defense portals to get back to the "real world", and then mess with the timestream all she wanted. Although a better strategy would probably be to stop Glb'golyb from being prototyped.