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Author Topic: More Grudge Stuff?  (Read 2237 times)

Puzzlemaker

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More Grudge Stuff?
« on: July 18, 2009, 02:54:22 pm »

Fleshing out Grudges would be great.  Maybe have them happen more often, or simply just give them reasons for happening.  Also give them more effects.

A few suggestions:

1.  Jealousy, not just from nobles.  Dwarf A is getting fed, has a better dining hall, etc, but I do more work/have more experience.  That sort of thing.
2.  Actions should cause Grudges.  You get hit during a temper tantrum, you get a grudge.
3.  Transferable grudges.  Grudges can transfer between close friends.  Perhaps friendships should be able to also?
4.  Grudges do something.  Perhaps making it so dwarves can get in fight with other dwarves they hate?

Anyway, that's it.
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Warlord255

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 02:56:42 pm »

I agree that it's odd for grudges to only occur when they have extremely different personality types. I'm not promoting the idea of a "EVERYONE HATES EVERYONE" fortress but it'd be interesting to see negative relationships more often to spice things up.

It'd be interesting if certain personality types were prone to hating everyone.
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Steely Glint

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 03:30:04 pm »

It'd be interesting if certain personality types were prone to hating everyone.

Is there a misanthropy/friendliness personality trait?
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cerapa

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009, 04:01:43 pm »

Yay! Tantrum spirals from idling dwarves!

Sounds like fun. I support this.
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Pleeb

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2009, 07:55:47 pm »

I get maybe 1 in 12 dwarves that hate each other. This ratio really does need to be upped a little, and with more reasons other than that the person is annoying. I hope this makes it in.
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tsen

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2009, 04:12:15 am »

I've actually only had one dwarf hate another one in all of my fortresses.

Although I am a terrible slavemaster who can't stand to see anything by Idle: 0.
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tigrex

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2009, 04:32:32 am »

Needless to say, idle hands make Armok's workshop.

I would love to see the occasional dwarven whodunnit arising from grudges.  Not enough to wipe out a fort, but enough to consider having my guards preemptively arrest a troublemaker.
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Rowanas

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2009, 06:57:16 am »

Yeah, the only people that get grudges are the children of my fort, because everyone spends their time actually doing some sodding work (Children, if you can hear this, hint hint.)
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zagabar

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2009, 09:42:07 am »

I think this idea is great. Spicing up the grudges with random fights, bad thoughts when seeing each other and maybe even murder attempts if the personality allows it and the grudge is bad (of course this would mark the culprit as criminal if he is detected) would fit really well with  the new system for burrows. Then the player would need to consider what dwarfes are assigned to what burrows. Like if two doctor dwarves totally hate each other and starts fighting in the hospital area and so on, the player would need to consider splitting them up into different hospital burrows. Maybe even different dining rooms and food storages if the grudge is really bad and the player don't want fights (also fights would give bad thoughts to random people who sees it. Or maybe good thoughts to insane dorfs).

This would bring a new dimension to fortress design. Making areas so that people can avoid people they hate, and be with their friends.

Who knows, in the future this could extend to something like this in huge fortresses: if a burrow is large and supports many dorfs, they get a infrastructure of relationships and hierarchies so that it becomes a "clan" or something. They might pick a leader to depend on, and call themselves something, maybe related to that burrows tasks (kinda like McUrist ShallowCarp of the Aspiring Doctors or something xD). Then the whole clan can interact with other clans, like starting to like each other, or if the leaders or many dorfs in between them have grudges, they despise each other or something like that. But this would of course be in a lot later release in that case. =)   
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Granite26

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2009, 05:26:53 pm »

I dunno... Friend's and people we naturally like can get away with a lot of things you wouldn't accept someone who annoyed you.

Sure there are classic betrayals of trust, the things epics are made of, but the basic everyday grudge?  Something a bit more petty

Rowanas

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2009, 06:47:20 pm »

There are lots of people I don't like, and I never get into fights with them. In fact, I'm more likely to sustain an injury (as are they) when I'm with my best friends.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Puzzlemaker

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2009, 11:41:52 am »

I was hoping for this to eventually be able to lead to class warfare, especially with the burrow system in place now.  That would be radical.
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Sensei

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 01:57:52 pm »

Ah, but you, Rowanas, are not four feet tall with a beard, nor do you have the ability to go for years consuming nothing but beer and roasted beer.
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zagabar

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2009, 03:05:23 pm »

Ah, but you, Rowanas, are not four feet tall with a beard, nor do you have the ability to go for years consuming nothing but beer and roasted beer.

Also I believe that it do happens that people that despices each other really bad (we are talking grudges after all) gets into fist fight. And seeing someone you don't like everyday at work would indeed create bad thoughts. Likewise, being in a nice workteams where people are friendly, gives good thoughts and that alone might motivate the player to check out the personalities and such of the dwarves to make good productive (none tantrum-spiraling) burrows. As it is now currently, I feel no need at all to check up on a dwarfs friends and such for other reasons  than curiosity.
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Slogo

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Re: More Grudge Stuff?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 03:09:11 pm »

The grudges with children is pretty weird. I could see it developing between children but a child and a grown dwarf developing a grudge just seems silly.
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