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[Granite26]

[Sunken]

Needs love triangles.
Needs romantic jealousy, cheating, catfights and double suicides. More drama!

[Rowanas]

I like the fact that my dwarves don't cheat. If they did, I would just kill all the cheaters (no I'm not bitter at all...). Eventually my dwarves would realise that cheating dwarves suffer worse fates than mere nobles, and cut it out.

I WILL have harmony

[Granite26]

I like the fact that my dwarves don't cheat. If they did, I would just kill all the cheaters (no I'm not bitter at all...). Eventually my dwarves would realise that cheating dwarves suffer worse fates than mere nobles, and cut it out.

I WILL have harmony

Good point...   Toady has said he wants actors to recognize when they are being genetically selected against... How should behaviours being selected against affect the likelihood of that behaviour being expressed?

Should the justice system actually work as a deterent?

[Pilsu]

Capital punishment for adultery wasn't exactly rare. You'd need a ridiculously complex AI to make any use of such a mechanic though, otherwise dwarves would just randomly die

I guess it might work better for severely sexist races. The dead female probably wouldn't have been very useful anyway

[Rowanas]

I think that it should be up to you as the player to do it. If you want gangbangs and love triangles, then you punish monogamist dwarves. If you hate cheaters and adulterers in all their many forms, you hunt them down and slaughter them like the bastards they are. Hell, you might even get whores in your fortress, who are constantly having kids (and getting the good thoughts that come with being a parent).

The recognition algorithm wouldn't be difficult as such. You just make it so that the fates of dwarves are logged in the memory of the fortress, and dwarves with a personality trait or appearance that matches with a victim would slowly change their traits.

Unfortunately, given the vast array of traits that can be the same, if you kill the adulterers, you might find that your dwarves are not only picking up on that, but also the coincidental good work ethic of the dwarves in question, and so the dwarves would move away from adultery and hard work.

[Puzzlemaker]

Eh, I think the whole love thing is too culturally based to have instant grudgification involved, in my opinion.

[Dae]

Yep, perhaps civilization need their culture more fleshed out before dwarves judge each other's behaviour. Currently, the only cultural thing depends on the raws and is applicable only to wage wars against other races.
Hopefully, one day we'll see a monogamous dwarf move to another Moutainhome because monogamy is prohibited in the Fortress he was born.
Or elves refusing to sell their goods to red-bearded dwarves.

Anyway, I agree grudges can be a great Fun generator. Spreading grudges via friends and / or family would probably be the easiest way. Injustice could also be a grudge generator (then the Hammerer and nobles probably won't be very popular, and someone elected could become unpopular because of the beatings he ordered).
If a ruler has a grudge, either through loyalty or propaganda, his subjects could be taken toward hatred. If two rulers hate each others, we could have a war breaking out !

Implementing this would mean generating subfactions from factions, each one with relations to each other (sub)faction, ranging from Ally (possibly leading to unify both factions) to Enemy with Friendly, Indifferent, Unfriendly in the middle. Each member of this faction would have his personnal opinion biased by its faction(s) opinion depending on its loyalty to it, and / or friends' loyalty to it.

Opinions on a subject being made of said subject, how much someone is commited to it, how much someone thinks other should be commited to it. I don't know how to get actual gameplay into it, but people shoudl be able to fight over things this way.

I think this system would cover quite a big number of situations : personnal vendetta, family alliances, economic alliance, total war, political schism, country unification (possibly through marriages), revolution (if most people disagree with their ruler), Coup d'Etat (if someone powerful disagrees with his ruler, although the difference with a revolution wouldn't be seen here), Civil War (population divided in two over a subject).

[Dvergar]

That is interesting I see it now, one dwarf gets hurt during a tantrum, the grudge spreads among family and friends and two factions form, fights lead to murder, which leads to all out war, you can only snicker (possibly with a tear in your eye) as your mature fortress crumbles to dust

EDIT: I for some reason quoted the first post *facepalm*

[Puzzlemaker]

That is interesting I see it now, one dwarf gets hurt during a tantrum, the grudge spreads among family and friends and two factions form, fights lead to murder, which leads to all out war, you can only snicker (possibly with a tear in your eye) as your mature fortress crumbles to dust

EDIT: I for some reason quoted the first post *facepalm*

Yeah, this is more what I had in mind; with the ability to "Spread" grudges and friendships among circles of friends and relatives, you can have a clan-war like thing pop up.

[Dae]

You'd just have to be careful to balance everything so that factions unify as frequently as they form. If you don't do it well, you'll have a bajillion small factions with ridiculous differences.

"I am Urist McPeasant. I am a member of the Red Boots of Granite.
> Ask for personnal opinion
I am a Tearfully Blessed Newborner. In 156, the Tearfully Blessed Newborner was founded  at the fortress of MoutainSock over an argument about whether children should drink alcohol or not. In 158, Civil War broke out.
In 173, MoutainSock crumbled to its end."

People need to know when an argument is over, when a faction has lost or when there is no longer a reason for the grudge to be.

[Puzzlemaker]

I wasn't thinking of anything as "official" as them forming their own groups.  Let me try to explain.

Lets say you have Dwarf A, and Dwarf B.  Dwarf A has a sister.  Dwarf B is friends with a lot of people.

Dwarf A and Dwarf B hit it off pretty well.  Eventually then end up as friends.

As friends, for Dwarf A, any friends that Dwarf B knows end up as acquaintances for Dwarf A, IF they arn't already acquaintances. 

Meaning the friends of friends become acquaintances automatically if you don't already know them/don't know them well.

This could be also used for Grudges; Any grudges friends have automatically become "Dislikes" for you, if you don't already know them/don't know them well.

Dwarves who dislike another Dwarf should have a chance of picking a fight with them, which should cause them to dislike them more, and maybe friends could get involved.

With a system like that, you could have basic social networks, crime, and factions.

[Dae]

Problem would still be the same, the schism just wouldn't be recorded as a historic fact. In the end, if you don't pay attention to balance, you'll have lots of very small communities hating each other to death.

[Kaiern]

I seems to be getting grudges between some of my starting dwarves all the time now. All I want is for some of them to start a fight in my party hall or something. That would be great!

[Dvergar]

Oh I was just exaggurating and going off on a tangent, I am not neccisarily saying that I wished it were that way, (though it would be very rogue-like-like to have the very identities of your dwarves an imminent threat)