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Author Topic: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?  (Read 2152 times)

Sorenson

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Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« on: April 03, 2009, 05:23:19 pm »

Inspired by a quote I read on another forum, what about the ability to set down totems as furniture, and the ability of said totems to actually affect the behavior of units that see it (IE, causing combat skill penalties, increased liklihoods to flee combat, etc)?

Basically, it works like this: when you set the totem down, DF looks to certain tags on the creature whose skull formed the totem - size, genpower, number and severity of potential attacks, that sort of stuff - and creates a series of effects for units who're in or are about to enter combat (hidden goblin ambushers, for example) who enter the visible areas around the totem.  Depending on the total "power", for lack of a better term, of the totem and the number of totems you have out, the units will receive various bonuses or penalties to their abilities - if, for example, the main road leading into your fort is lined on both sides with goblin totems, smaller goblin squads who see enough of them would have a good chance of outright fleeing, while sieges would continued onward but be given a good case of the willies, reducing their effective combat ability.  Replace the goblin totems with, say, hydra totems, and anything but the biggest, baddest siege armies that exist for no other reason than to wipe your fort off the face of the earth would be sent running.

On the flip side, friendly units and military dwarves who see the totems would receive bonuses to their combat abilities much in the same way as enemies receive penalties - confidence boosts, you might say.

The effects, naturally, would only extend over to creatures with the intelligent token in their files, so megabeasts and wild critters wouldn't be affected (though I think some of the semimegabeasts and a few other animals have the right token)

And even if the psychology stuff is out of the question, you can't deny that having the piked heads of your enemies lining your main road is just awesome.
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Guy Montag

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 05:31:21 pm »

I guess if the Goblin leader was a biologist.

"Lets go guys, we'll get revenge on these greedy goddamn dwarves!" *RAWRRRH!*

"Whoa, hold on guys... thats the skull of a Hydra/dragon/demon/titan, we better just go home"

or "Whoa, these guys have about 400 kitten skulls out here... they must be too much for our rage-filled army"

Nah, I don't think a soldier is going to be too distracted with dead animals and skulls everywhere when he's in the middle of a balls-out seige. If anything putting his dead homie's heads up on pikes with decorations on them is only going to piss them off more.

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AncientEnemy

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2009, 05:40:55 pm »

Buildable totems I'm all for, but the rest seems somewhat unnecessary, and would either be unrealistic or irrelevant to simulate. I can't imagine baddies who are willing to mercilessly slaughter every occupant of your fort having much reaction to seeing a few skulls on posts.

Dwarf thoughts might be a plus (not so much with the combat bonuses), certain dwarves would feel pride at seeing their enemies made into trophies, while others would be creeped out, depending on personality

Heron TSG

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 06:53:20 pm »

I'm all for buildable totems... my temple of armok needs better decorations than "just" blood. I want to line the walls with goblin corpses!
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Pilsu

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 08:11:02 pm »

They already make suicidal assaults against impenetrable forts, ventures from which no one ever returns. If that isn't enough to break their morale, nothing will

Sure you could make them behave like intelligent beings but a fantasy setting without endless hordes of faceless mooks is just painfully dull
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Foa

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 10:46:09 pm »

I'd really like to see the multi-tile growth rate of a totem, heh, five thousand cat bones, and one thousand cat skulls, that'd be a big one!
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Awayfarer

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 07:44:29 am »

Yeah, buildable totems sound good. Other stuff doesn't seem necessary.
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Neonivek

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 12:54:43 pm »

They already make suicidal assaults against impenetrable forts, ventures from which no one ever returns. If that isn't enough to break their morale, nothing will

Sure you could make them behave like intelligent beings but a fantasy setting without endless hordes of faceless mooks is just painfully dull

Well the Fear factor could make them more willing to run away.

Mind you that once a Siege force gets to a certain size (the 100+ sieges) it probably won't help too much.
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Folly

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2009, 04:54:46 pm »

Not sure I like the idea of weakening enemy units..but what if you just really pissed them off?
Goblins see goblin skull totems, they get mad and bring bigger raids more often in an attempt to avenge their fallen comrades? I wouldn't mind being able to trigger more raids.

I could see totems of rare creatures, like dragons, being an inspiration to dwarves though. At the very least, they should give some really good thoughts to soldiers.
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varkarrus

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2009, 07:50:48 pm »

No. Here's what I think. First, you designate a single area as a totem square, then you add bones, skulls to start your base, then you can turn it into a totem fountain by adding mechanics, followed by a certain amount of blood, or into a totem torch by adding mechanics and coal. Different bones fall into different groups that give different bonuses (for you) and penalties (for enemies), with skulls giving even stronger bonuses. If you turn it into a fountain, it gives stronger penalties, where torches give stronger bonuses. All bonuses and penalties have to do with fighting. As you add bones and skulls, it takes more space, and you can designate different bordering tiles, to multipurpose your totem into a wall. You can also multipurpose totems into thrones instead of fountains and torches

Different categories of bones include

Cute: Enemies get scared
Beast: Dwarves are inspired
Sentient: Enemies get scared and Dwarves are inspired, especially if the Sentient is the same as the enemy.
Legendary: Enemies flip out, and Dwarves are really inspired

Some enemies are immune to penalties and may even get bonuses. Goblins would get angry (or just get scared after they hit the breaking point), but kobolds would just get scared and run away. Humans are braver, but would still get scared. Elves would get REALLY angry, and never get scared. Especially if trees are used in the making.
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And you can't eat them, either, sadly. Even though it'd make sieges so much more fun; dwarves lining the walls, drooling and carrying sharp knives and forks, ready for the upcoming meals.

Heron TSG

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 08:57:26 pm »

you can designate different bordering tiles, to multipurpose your totem into a wall.

I now want to build a DF version of Hadrian's Wall out of Goblins, Cows, and elf.

(See what I did there? I didn't capitalize elf!)
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Enzo

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2009, 11:18:26 pm »

Buildable totems I'm all for, but the rest seems somewhat unnecessary, and would either be unrealistic or irrelevant to simulate. I can't imagine baddies who are willing to mercilessly slaughter every occupant of your fort having much reaction to seeing a few skulls on posts.

Dwarf thoughts might be a plus (not so much with the combat bonuses), certain dwarves would feel pride at seeing their enemies made into trophies, while others would be creeped out, depending on personality
Seconded. The badass-factor of building totems would be cool, but some of the elaborate stuff being proposed doesn't really sound worth the trouble to implement.
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Aquillion

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2009, 11:23:46 pm »

I think the real use of totems will have to wait until we have more detailed religion / magic.
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Neonivek

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 12:01:15 am »

I think the real use of totems will have to wait until we have more detailed religion / magic.

Ouch! I didn't expect the "wait until the magic arc" retort.

Well, it all really depends on what Totems really are in this case. I somehow doubt these are the standard "Repel evil spirit" totems and more of the "Artistic Disuassion" kind.

Quote
The badass-factor of building totems would be cool, but some of the elaborate stuff being proposed doesn't really sound worth the trouble to implement

Unless you expand in which you apply a "Group Psychosis".
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Guy Montag

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Re: Buildable totems and psychological warfare?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2009, 01:50:18 am »

Building them would be cool, and maybe the odd dwarf would get a minor happy thought for seeing a trophy made from something awesome or something he hated. All the more reason to line your main halls ad nausem with skulls, I suppose.

I think it'd be extra awesome if they could be attached to the walls themselves as a decorative item that compounded the walls value/ engravings value even more. Would be cool if it changed the graphic to reflect the difference, even. A new task a bonecarver gets or something to "decorate walls/ stone blocks with bone" or something rather then a building you construct that flashes every half second when a sock is superimposed on it and may or may not impress anybody.

I dunno about psychological effects. A lot of dorfs like cats for their aloofness and get a happy thought from seeing them in cages "saw a wonderful creature, ect" and don't know how well they'd respond to a -Kitten Skull Totem- built in their room or what have you.

IF they were just added to the walls and compounded its value that'd increase the fortress value and encourage more attacks/ambushes/migrants. That'd replicate dwarves moving in because they heard of the awesome throphy you made out of that dragon's head or the Goblins getting riled up because you have about 200 of thier comrades decorating your fortress.

I have no idea. It might be a pain in the ass to program anything related to it, I'm sure something is planned for them in the future though.
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