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[Argonnek]

If there's massive internal conflict, how will the police forces be able to pay attention to both them and you? Would it be a Police-State? If I were a chief of police I would pay more attention to the guerrillas waiting to strike than to the petty criminals that we would start out as.

[inaluct]

I propose that instead of trying to decide on a 3rd world country vs. a fully developed one, we play in a well developed country, in a reasonably large city, but have some massive internal conflict in progress.  That way, we can have the competent law enforcement, difficult jobs associated with banks and such as suggested, but we also get the chaos and underground/guerrilla warfare stuff that the other side wants.

Thoughts?

Yeah, but then we need to deal with some massive criminal organization that will devote even more attention to stamping out competition than the cops will to throwing us in jail. If we already have some group doing urban guerrilla warfare, we need to deal with them, too, and I don't want this to turn into some game about the mafia or whatever.

If we just have a city where the police are relatively preoccupied by unorganized crime, we get the potentially difficult missions while still being able to not be smashed into dust by a SWAT team the first time we sell someone an exploding eclair.

[Emperor_Jonathan]

I say just a developed country, a medium-large city where there is almost zero unorganised crime.

[Pandarsenic]

Or we could set it in a massive city riddled with relatively unorganized crime. That way, the cops will be too busy tracking down pedophiles and miscellaneous psychopaths to worry about us until we start buzzing residential areas in a helicopter, dropping bombs and spraying houses with minigun fire while Dies Irae from Mozart's Requiem Mass in D minor blares loudly out of our helicopter-mounted speakers at 194 decibels.

And by then it'll be too late.

YES.

[Little]

What about a well-developed city with low-level organizied crime. Just a couple gang.

[Archangel]

What about a well-developed city with low-level organizied crime. Just a couple gang.

IF there's mid level unorganised crime as well, that would be good.

[inaluct]

I say just a developed country, a medium-large city where there is almost zero unorganised crime.

1. A medium large city has fewer large skyscrapers and potential terrorist sites entertaining tourist attractions than a metropolis. I think that this game would benefit from having a plenitude of interesting locations.
2. With no unorganized crime, the police will swoop in and arrest most of us for carrying illegal weapons. So far, what basically everyone else has agreed on is that having the police show up when all you have is a combat knife and a revolver is not going to make the game entertaining or worthwhile.

We need a place where we can slip under the radar until we can actually deal with law enforcement. At that point, we need them to actually pose a threat. In other words, we need a city with a large police force that's currently busy handling the populace. Setting the game in a metropolis would provide a population large enough to occupy the police, many interesting locations, an increased likelihood of locating illegal firearms, and enough space that the squads could all do their own thing without accidentally stepping on each other's toes.

What about a well-developed city with low-level organizied crime. Just a couple gang.

That's probably a good idea too, if they were very small street gangs. I agree with Archangel, too. I'm not sure what constitutes mid level unorganized crime, but it sounds unorganized.

Or we could set it in a massive city riddled with relatively unorganized crime. That way, the cops will be too busy tracking down pedophiles and miscellaneous psychopaths to worry about us until we start buzzing residential areas in a helicopter, dropping bombs and spraying houses with minigun fire while Dies Irae from Mozart's Requiem Mass in D minor blares loudly out of our helicopter-mounted speakers at 194 decibels.

And by then it'll be too late.

YES.

I'm glad you share my enthusiasm.

[Emperor_Jonathan]

2. With no unorganized crime, the police will swoop in and arrest most of us for carrying illegal weapons. So far, what basically everyone else has agreed on is that having the police show up when all you have is a combat knife and a revolver is not going to make the game entertaining or worthwhile.

I meant organised crime, ><

[inaluct]

I agree with you, in that case.

[Emperor_Jonathan]

I agree with all your points though.

[Duke 2.0]

 Cop1: Hey! They have a helicoper with a minigun on it! Call the SWAT team!
 Cop2: Ugh, are you feeling sick since the police ball with those wonderful pastries? I swear, it's like I swallowed a bom-

 And then chaos spreads over the city, as every major cop is reduced to a pile of mangles parts.

[Argonnek]

How about we divide the city into "Sectors" that are each controlled by a certain level of criminal. For example: the big, well organized criminal syndicates control the densely populated business district because of their high profits. the smaller, less organized gangs control the outskirts of that area and are constantly vying for power over the others in the hopes that they can get a piece of the more profitable areas. Then there's us in the suburbs/empty warehouses/haunted mansions/or whatever, trying our best to undermine the political and economical foundations of the city to cause chaos. Also, I suggest that there be added a distraction skill. i.e. if you're doing something illegal, you don't want the cops to notice. you set some small obstacles, well timed explosions, etc. The skill would be knowing how to coordinate all of these things to their maximum effect.

[Pandarsenic]

I'm rather partial to this version.

Same here. I was torn between that, Lacrimosa, and Sandstorm.

I think you all know what I'll be listening to.  I really do love that song - I have in my music player and jam to it while driving.

Is this the legacy of too much for too few that I see...

I have my song.

[inaluct]

The thing is, though, that well organized criminal syndicates are not going to ignore us stepping in on their territory. And trust me, if they are in this game, we will become involved, and it will suddenly shift from plotting how to cause chaos and undermine things to how to impress Don Antonio at the pizza party pasta dinner (?) that he just decided to invite you to.

Honestly, adding a lot of organized crime anywhere in the city would turn this into gangland diplomacy, which doesn't seem to be what anyone here really wants.

[Little]

What if we have uninterrupted law enforcement and just work it in? Constant movement of safehouses, buying fake IDs, making sure your face doesn't get caught on tape, trying to keep a low profile...

It'd be simpler. We could still implement crime, but I'd like law enforcment to be a threat.