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[Granite26]

The OP was pimping a feature where a higher level player can temporarily boost a lower level player to his level.

That lower level player gets his stats and powers upgraded for the duration, but doesn't get NEW powers--so you end up with less cool stuff overall and you don't have the versatility of a truly higher powered player, while still mostly keeping up in damage and in not dying.  Still, it IS a fun way to party with your friend who is lower level than you.

That sounds like fun, actually.  It was the 'it's actually BETTER to play with experienced people'.

One thing that I liked about WoW was that I only needed to do each quest once in order to level.  About the time I got used to things, it was time to move on to explore a different area.  (I quit at lvl 55, so that's that)

[Servant Corps]

In PvE games, I don't see why you would be angry about this. I mean, you're not going to compete with the newbie. And if the newbie grows stronger, he may be useful...eventually...one day...

In PvP games, don't you want your allies to level up quickly so that you can fight the True Enemy, the other factions?

[Aqizzar]

For me, it's more about just being able to hang out with my friends on any given night.  We just set our phones to conference and speaker, team up, and slaughter mobs for fun.  After a while, the gameplay doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.  Naturally, I don't play pickup teams that much.

[Soulwynd]

Btw, I don't like it much either, but for other reasons... But I must say the alpha has been amazing, the game changed a whole lot during the process and it was awesome to see my ideas implemented.

So you had a hand in the thing?

What specifically was influenced by you?

Not by me alone, but I did my share of annoying them to get it that way. We pretty much killed the power trees and class selection. You can pick any power from any set, except for the high ones, which require a number of powers in a set before you unlock them, but those powers are few right now, along with the level limited ones, the bulk of the powers are available to anyone.

I also made sure to annoy them lots about being able to customize the looks of your power, at first they were reluctant, but now it seems they will be at least trying to implement it. I did my share on pets too, most used to fade pretty quick and only target some enemies, now most pet powers do stay for a while with you. I'm also not sure it was because of me, but afaik, I was the first and most likely the only one who asked for magic circles... and we got them... several of them... which is pretty cool.

But I think NDA is still in place, so I shouldn't be talking about this. Meh, I don't think I've said anything they haven't said already anyway.

[Sergius]

For me, it's more about just being able to hang out with my friends on any given night.  We just set our phones to conference and speaker, team up, and slaughter mobs for fun.  After a while, the gameplay doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.  Naturally, I don't play pickup teams that much.

I play almost always pickup teams, because I don't have yet build a list of regulars to play with. There's nobody I know that plays the game, or any other game that requires paying money. I'm sure that's one of the reasons MMORPGs always suck for me, grind or not. So, I figured what better way to join up with people than to advertise it in a forum I frequent

[Soulwynd]

Some of my screenshots from CoX.

[Granite26]

In PvE games, I don't see why you would be angry about this. I mean, you're not going to compete with the newbie. And if the newbie grows stronger, he may be useful...eventually...one day...

In PvP games, don't you want your allies to level up quickly so that you can fight the True Enemy, the other factions?

If that's the point of the game, why make you level up anyway?

[Servant Corps]

If that's the point of the game, why make you level up anyway?

...I don't know. I guess it is to provide some more investment to your character, sorta like a tutorial, before you actually get to the "REAL GAME".

[Neonivek]

Leveling up is there to add length to the game.

MMORPGs without some form of stretching out the gameplay usually don't last.

Id go back to City of Heros if it wasn't for the fact that it is suffering a lot from "There are no players my level anymore"

[Soulwynd]

MMORPGs without some form of stretching out the gameplay usually don't last.

And that's the assumption that fucks up mmorpgs in my opinion.

[Keiseth]

I've been playing the trial and enjoying it, on the Virtue server. I'll probably grab the full copy today; at $19 it seems like a great deal, even if it's boring before the first month is over.

(Note: graphical settings are set to 'ludicrously low' so it'll run.)


I think I spent eight hours so far in the character creator, but that's my current one. It was almost entirely designed by a friend of mine, actually, so I can't take the credit.

...and I imagine leveling up still exists because, as long as the grind isn't too tedious, leveling up is usually fun. Watching your character grow from a minimally powered hero into a courageous legend who can take on sixteen arch-demons at the same time-- that's fun, really, the same way raising a plant is fun, I suppose.

It's why books start with the hero confused and scared and end with him triumphing over all that tried to stop him (usually)! It's easy to forget that when games do things like "You have to kill 23 more spotted leopardkin kobolds!" or "You're only 1,403,216,343 exp to level 87!"

Dwarf Fortress handles this particularly elegantly I say, because even a brand new adventurer has that tiny chance of a direct blow to the heart...

Anyway! If anyone wants to join up, I've been meaning to create a new character anyway; I only have one, after all. We could find a mutual server or all join somebody else's server or whatever is cool. As I said, I'm on Virtue now. Most folks appear to be on Freedom.

[Servant Corps]

I would prefer starting off at Level 100 and then fighting the raids. Cut out all that excess time and get prepared to be awesome Mary Sue.

Just me though.

[Soulwynd]

The character creator is indeed the best feature of the game.

[Neonivek]

And that's the assumption that ruins mmorpgs in my opinion.

No assumption it is pretty much true. Though YES them trying to achieve a longer game that does ruin MMORPGs.

Mostly because they try to do so by the most garbage of ways.

UNFORTUNATELY people just get suckered into it... Just look at Maple story... There is interestingly a Flash series based on it and the very last flash of it... is all the characters leaving Maple story because they kinda realised it wasn't all that great.

[Soulwynd]

And that's the assumption that ruins mmorpgs in my opinion.

No assumption it is pretty much true.

No, it's an assumption that levels and grinding is required to keep people there for longer. Take TF2 for example. It's an mmo that makes no such assumption, to the point where it doesn't charge you monthly. And yes, it's an mmo, at any given time there are thousands of people playing it in 'servers' which are pretty much instances of the game. Guildwars halved such assumption and lot of people like it. It's seriously not required. What is required is for people to have fun with it. It's the assumption they have to drag people through advancement in order to make another month of cash that leads people to create the shitty mmos we have around today.

I'd personally like to see a mmo without levels where in game skills only have a partial effect on the final result. Something focused at having fun, using strategy and thinking instead of staring at the screen grinding. Darkfall might be an example, but I haven't played it yet. A good example for me is operation 7, even tho it has levels. I play it for fun, not to level up.