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Author Topic: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'  (Read 21570 times)

JoshuaFH

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2009, 04:05:32 pm »

I'm in the mode of thinking that: It's not IF we find intelligent life, it's WHEN!

Words


Back to science fiction for me then! Atleast until we discover warp drive or something.

I believe some calculations put there like 15-16 thousand Civilizations out there.

Main issue is that they most likely are COMPLETELY alien, were not talking star trek aliens, were talking about eyes coming out of there mouth mounted testicles, they probably wouldn't even have feet, maybe not even mouths or even eyes. (Edit: Testicles are earthlike things aren't they? Remove them then.)

Not to mention Cultural differences... Oh gods the Christians would be horrified.

Even if they were able to get to earth, they'd be REALLY STUPID to make first contact.

I'd be within a year after first contact, at our current situation, we'd blow ourselves up.

I don't think aliens would be THAT monster like. Really weird, maybe, but not monster-like.
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Jude

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2009, 05:08:31 pm »

Aliens also probably wouldn't have language
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2009, 07:33:00 pm »

Aliens also probably wouldn't have language

They would also lack mathematics, and couldn't create catapults.  ;)
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Jude

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2009, 10:59:54 pm »

They would lack an awful lot of things that we humans assume are essential for "advanced" life

And they would probably have a whole bunch of things that we couldn't imagine or comprehend
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Gorjo MacGrymm

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2009, 12:53:57 am »

So, what would an Alien Toady be like?
What game would he create,  hyz'tz'rxfd'er Fortress?
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Rilder

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2009, 02:02:35 am »

Aliens also probably wouldn't have language

Eh, they could have language, just probably not as we know it.
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Jude

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2009, 10:12:57 am »

Aliens also probably wouldn't have language

Eh, they could have language, just probably not as we know it.

They could but there's no reason to expect it anymore than to expect them to be bipedal

or to have "peds"
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Sergius

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2009, 12:26:34 pm »

Any kind of structured communication is a language. Written, sign language, body language, spoken. Smell language. "Thought" language if they're telepathic.

So unless they all instinctively know what each other is thinking, or have a hive mind, they have language if they hope to make a collaborative society. Specially if they have abstract concepts, which aren't instinctual.
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Electronic Phantom

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2009, 12:46:13 pm »

It's life, Jim, but not as we know it...

>.>

I find this conversation amusing.  When, if, I should say, we find 'intelligent life' it will be as it is.  As for finding intelligent life, I think not.  Who in their right mind would go find a race that's spamming the electromagnetic spectrum and has been for half a century now (if not longer)?

Wait... that's assuming they are in 'their right mind.'  What happens if today was the day they were in their 'left mind,'  or perhaps secondary mind?

I think I'll stop now.

>.>

-(e)EP
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Samyotix

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2009, 02:19:16 pm »

The one thing Scifi keeps ignoring is just how huge and empty space is ...

Yes, there's well over 100 billion stars in this galaxy, and we know of at least 100 billion galaxies, so ... there is a chance there's life somewhere.

However the Sun is an exception: Most stars are binary systems, and stable orbits are unlikely near those. Also the Sun is in a safe location, since it follows a galactic arm at some distance. If we were in that arm where new suns are born and old suns explode every couple of 100k years, or close to the galactic center, we'd be more likely to be hit by supernova explosions, or have something heavy alter the orbits of the Sun's planets. Stars in a stable, safe location like ours are quite rare. (Also life can probably only exist near Sun-sized stars: Small stars like brown giants are too cold, big ones send too much dangerous radiation and don't live very long before exploding.)

Also, to make life, one needs heavy elements. These did not exist in the early universe - after the big bang, there was only energy; when that cooled down, it became mostly matter and antimatter which made more energy; some particles remained -- Hydrogen and Helium.

In order for us (mostly carbon, with some oxygen and iron etc) to come around, the Hydrogen and Helium had to form stars, which then fused Hydrogen, ran out of hydrogen, burnt at hotter temperatures creating heavier elements up to iron, and exploded in supernovae creating elements heavier than iron, and forming new dust clouds.
This must have taken a while - supernovae need to build up and go boom (tens of million years only, for very heavy stars), the escaping material needs to form dust clouds, these need to form into new stars ... eventually you'll get dust that is rich enough in heavy stuff to make earth-like planets.

Scientists estimate this would take some 10 billion years.
Earth is like 3 billion years old, and the universe 13.8 billion years if I remember right -- that means the Sun is probably among the first suns to even have enough heavy matter to form an Earth.

Still, with the universe as huge as it is, it must have life somewhere.
The size is another problem: No information can go faster than the speed of Light ... and that has been very much proven in Physics. Travel to somewhere that's even a hundred thousand light years away is pretty much infeasible if you consider the lifespan of human civilizations ... the whole planet would need to cooperate just to send a handful of people away, to never hear of them again. Likely?


Sorry I sound like such a pessimist. Source for my badly documented rant above is in an excellent astronomy lecture series by an astronomy prof, in German, which covers, among other things, questions such as "how real is Star Trek?", "are there aliens?" etc.

http://www.br-online.de/br-alpha/alpha-centauri/alpha-centauri-harald-lesch-videothek-ID1207836664586.xml
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 02:22:39 pm by Samyotix »
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Yanlin

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2009, 02:29:47 pm »

You know what I like? There are 3 kinds of alien believers. Those who believe they will be nothing like us and those who believe they will be awkwardly similar.

Why can't they have 50 legs and 2 eyes? Or 50 eyes and 2 legs?
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Tormy

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2009, 02:42:24 pm »

Also, to make life, one needs heavy elements. These did not exist in the early universe - after the big bang, there was only energy; when that cooled down, it became mostly matter and antimatter which made more energy; some particles remained -- Hydrogen and Helium.

In order for us (mostly carbon, with some oxygen and iron etc) to come around, the Hydrogen and Helium had to form stars, which then fused Hydrogen, ran out of hydrogen, burnt at hotter temperatures creating heavier elements up to iron, and exploded in supernovae creating elements heavier than iron, and forming new dust clouds.
This must have taken a while - supernovae need to build up and go boom (tens of million years only, for very heavy stars), the escaping material needs to form dust clouds, these need to form into new stars ... eventually you'll get dust that is rich enough in heavy stuff to make earth-like planets.


You post was very well written. However I have a question. Why do you think, that only Earth-like planets can support life? We don't know anything about other systems or galaxies at all. Our knowledge is very minimal in this case.
[Anyway, there must be billions of Earth-like planets in the various galaxies probably.]
Now yet another interesting fact: How is it possible that not a single alien civilization has visited our planet? Probably there are lot of advanced alien civilizations in our galaxy, or in other galaxies. This means, that even they weren't able to solve the "huge distances between systems & galaxies" problem.
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Psyco Jelly

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2009, 03:25:57 pm »

Interstellar travel? How do you do it? Foldspace engines. We just need a way to break reality and fix it once we're done.

Why does every alien civilization use lazorbeems? Why not a cluster bomb that explodes into 100 cluster bombs that each explode into 100 more cluster bombs that each have 100 nukes inside? It may not be practical, but it'd be fun.

But if there's a misfire w
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2009, 03:55:02 pm »

However the Sun is an exception: Most stars are binary systems, and stable orbits are unlikely near those. Also the Sun is in a safe location, since it follows a galactic arm at some distance. If we were in that arm where new suns are born and old suns explode every couple of 100k years, or close to the galactic center, we'd be more likely to be hit by supernova explosions, or have something heavy alter the orbits of the Sun's planets. Stars in a stable, safe location like ours are quite rare. (Also life can probably only exist near Sun-sized stars: Small stars like brown giants are too cold, big ones send too much dangerous radiation and don't live very long before exploding.)
(...and the rest of the post.)
It's all nice and well, but empirical data shows that planets are quite common out there, with more being discovered every year. e.g.There are at leats two earth-like planets close to the habitable zone(sort of like Venus and Mars respectively) around Gliese 581 = just 20ly away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extrasolar_planets
Dimmer/brighter stars are not unable to support life, a planet has to, simply, orbit it  closer/farther.
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The size is another problem: No information can go faster than the speed of Light ... and that has been very much proven in Physics. Travel to somewhere that's even a hundred thousand light years away is pretty much infeasible if you consider the lifespan of human civilizations ... the whole planet would need to cooperate just to send a handful of people away, to never hear of them again. Likely?
I second this. What sane species would want to do this?
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Alien Civilizations - Galaxy has 'billions of Earths'
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2009, 04:13:16 pm »

Quote
The size is another problem: No information can go faster than the speed of Light ... and that has been very much proven in Physics. Travel to somewhere that's even a hundred thousand light years away is pretty much infeasible if you consider the lifespan of human civilizations ... the whole planet would need to cooperate just to send a handful of people away, to never hear of them again. Likely?
I second this. What sane species would want to do this?

One that wants to guarantee long-term survival? An Earth-destroying disaster will be less substantial on the human race if we've already colonized some far off planet, or maybe terraformed Mars or something.
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