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[Christes]

I'd be surprised if we weren't past 7 yet.

[Neonivek]

Though one issue I have is how explosive IS alcohol anyhow? I've seen Alcohol Fires before and it tends to burn but not explode.

Mind you I don't doubt that alcohol can explode... but the way the game handles it, it is as if the game took place in a Hollywood movie.

[Rockphed]

Anyway these are Dwarfs.  They invented mining so they'd have cellars to store their ale.

The way I heard it, they invented ale so they would have something to store in their cellars...

[sproingie]

Though one issue I have is how explosive IS alcohol anyhow?

You can run an engine on it, but that requires compression.  In a barrel?  It's not explosive.  You need to get over 40-ish proof to burn at all, so Dwarven Ale must pack a hell of a kick.

The alcohol explosions in DF are actually steam explosions, and I believe the smoke is from the barrels themselves burning (fires don't extinguish, they just burn out).  Even that is pretty far-fetched unless it's something like dragon breath or maybe a fireball hitting it.

[Shoku]

How would a nuke even work? haha i could see a giant firestorm that destroys buildings that would roll over your entire map--maybe have it trigger cave ins? TOADY I WANT TNT TO MINE WITH!

Think about it, its the perfect counter to walls! have it destroy and collapse walls so it could help you mine out large areas and for sieges you could have petards with barrels of black powder to smash your fortifications.

You could have it possibly convert a few tiles to dust cloud materials and then deconstruct or otherwise known down walls a few tiles further out with some random deconstructions further out.

It won't be so useful for invading armies punching holes in your place though as the major issue is having them recognize what walls they give a crap about blowing down (mindlessly just exploding every 1-3 thick wall they encounter would be dumb and annoying.)

As for using it in defense, well, timing would be everything and the only precise timing you get it them stepping on pressure plates at which point it's basically just a rockfall trap.

Though one issue I have is how explosive IS alcohol anyhow?

You can run an engine on it, but that requires compression.  In a barrel?  It's not explosive.  You need to get over 40-ish proof to burn at all, so Dwarven Ale must pack a hell of a kick.

The alcohol explosions in DF are actually steam explosions, and I believe the smoke is from the barrels themselves burning (fires don't extinguish, they just burn out).  Even that is pretty far-fetched unless it's something like dragon breath or maybe a fireball hitting it.

I thought we always just used, oh, you know, what's the word...
Magma. Does it not work for boozesplosions?

[Neonivek]

Actually even a Barrel of explosives isn't as deadly as it would appear on structures.

A 3 thick Square Stone wall would require an immense explosive to punch through

Heck even for a small barrel a 1 square Wooden Wall could be enough to withstand a blast (It would be in bad shape though)

[Warlord255]

I wonder; can you make an organ or bodypart liquid, such that it can leak out if the containing bodypart is ruptured?

[Aqizzar]

Considering that's exactly what blood is supposed to do, and Toady has lavishly described making creatures bleed out, I would say yes, yes you can.  Don't forget that one creature that was a ball of goo in a hard outer shell.

[G-Flex]

Though one issue I have is how explosive IS alcohol anyhow?

You can run an engine on it, but that requires compression.  In a barrel?  It's not explosive.  You need to get over 40-ish proof to burn at all, so Dwarven Ale must pack a hell of a kick.

40 proof sounds incredibly low; that's still 80% water (well, almost), and ethanol doesn't burn particularly hot.


I did a bit of cursory research, and it seems that (unsurprisingly) lower proofs require a bit more energy investment to get them burning, and that 80-90 proof seems like a decent minimum, but even that probably won't burn very well at all.

Things like sugar content might matter as well.

Considering that's exactly what blood is supposed to do, and Toady has lavishly described making creatures bleed out, I would say yes, yes you can.  Don't forget that one creature that was a ball of goo in a hard outer shell.

I think we're confusing blood, tissues, and bodyparts here.

Body parts are made up of tissues; so it's more like the tissue being made out of a liquid (I think) rather than the bodypart itself being made of one, although the result is the same.

Blood is a bit different, being something that comes out of body parts without really being a "part" of them.

[Warlord255]

Considering that's exactly what blood is supposed to do, and Toady has lavishly described making creatures bleed out, I would say yes, yes you can.  Don't forget that one creature that was a ball of goo in a hard outer shell.

I think we're confusing blood, tissues, and bodyparts here.

Body parts are made up of tissues; so it's more like the tissue being made out of a liquid (I think) rather than the bodypart itself being made of one, although the result is the same.

Blood is a bit different, being something that comes out of body parts without really being a "part" of them.

That's what I'm concerned about; organs, even if solid, don't just "fall out" if they are exposed to open air. However, there's the dev test with the boiling fat pouring out of the lion's skin, so it's not necessarily impossible... the question would be what the wound status of such a "bled-out" organ would be. Severed? Broken or mangled, depending on the quantity?

[Eek-A-Mouse]

Ok guys, I know this may sound strange but just listen in plz. Toady has been sick for quite a while... What if he is in fact not sick at all? Just gone -- Abducted! Dwarf fortress in its current version is astounding in its originality and intense detail which surpasses most, nay -- all -- other games in the present world. In its current version. But, then we think, wait! Toady has almost finished his NEXT version. WTF. Martians, noticing the intense pulses of ingeniosity resonating from  Toady's fingernails, took who they thought was the most intelligent member of the human species back to their homeplanet to exhibit in a zoo! We will be forever doomed to endure the current version of DF and a perpetual sense of trust that Toady will soon be cured from his "sickness" so that he can release the new version. Lament my dwarves 

[Footkerchief]

Okay, first, here's the word on gunpowder:

Given that anything I add which is both highly controversial and unnecessary will be optional, people can afford to be calm about future additions.

For those interested in a specific development timeline for gunpowder, I'll be faced with the question when I make the alchemist's workshop more interesting (assuming that workshop continues to exist).  Handling the workshop itself is a middle-priority matter, since the game elements involved aren't crucial but the the building is languishing in a limbo surrounded by mysterious useless raw entries like golden salve and gnomeblight.  I may or may not add optional gunpowder around that time.  I don't know.

Regarding gunpowder and some basic associated technologies, I can see myself playing either way, really, since I'm not that picky.  If I had to choose between having gunpowder on or off in a release distribution init file, it would be off, because Arnold got shot in Commando not Conan, and the Argonauts didn't get shot by handguns or cannons, and Medusa had a bow not a gun, and stuff.  We grew up with that crap, and our core DF, our myth/fantasy game, mainly hovers around that sort of fluffy nostalgia, but it doesn't need to impact you more than a one line file change.

Now on to this:

I wonder; can you make an organ or bodypart liquid, such that it can leak out if the containing bodypart is ruptured?

That's what I'm concerned about; organs, even if solid, don't just "fall out" if they are exposed to open air. However, there's the dev test with the boiling fat pouring out of the lion's skin, so it's not necessarily impossible... the question would be what the wound status of such a "bled-out" organ would be. Severed? Broken or mangled, depending on the quantity?

Yes, you can add liquid/gaseous tissues, organs and body parts.  (You can also use a gas/powder for the blood.)  Toady mentioned a few of the ways they can take damage:

02/10/2009: I handled the liquid/gas/powder tissue creatures running into trouble today. Leaks of inner layers, solidification/condensation damage, wacking away parts of them, that sort of thing.
08/10/2009: ... I stopped wrestling for non-solid creatures until there's more of an idea of what's going on there ...

I feel compelled to note that if I'm reading today's dev log right, you'll be able to mod in air-filled gas bladders for big fishies and then stab them and air will leak out.

Yeah, though, air would have to be added as a material...  and then it would appear as a visible flow within the other air.  On the plus side, I think (not sure, might need something) that you could also make a flier with a giant air bladder that is filled with a functional gaseous tissue within the [FLIER] bladder so that when it loses the contenst of the bladder it'll fall to the ground and have to walk around on its stubby little legs.  The missing part might be how flier is linked up...  oddly, the gas tissue might have to be [MUSCULAR] or [STRUCTURAL] instead of [FUNCTIONAL], but I'd have to check.  In any case, there's probably a solution in there.

[Chrispy]

Er... Isn't this just probably the end of month break?  He's been going hard for what, two months now?  He deserves one.

[Lord Shonus]

Ok guys, I know this may sound strange but just listen in plz. Toady has been sick for quite a while... What if he is in fact not sick at all? Just gone -- Abducted! Dwarf fortress in its current version is astounding in its originality and intense detail which surpasses most, nay -- all -- other games in the present world. In its current version. But, then we think, wait! Toady has almost finished his NEXT version. WTF. Martians, noticing the intense pulses of ingeniosity resonating from  Toady's fingernails, took who they thought was the most intelligent member of the human species back to their homeplanet to exhibit in a zoo! We will be forever doomed to endure the current version of DF and a perpetual sense of trust that Toady will soon be cured from his "sickness" so that he can release the new version. Lament my dwarves 

You are a sad, strange little internet thing.

[Footkerchief]

Er... Isn't this just probably the end of month break?  He's been going hard for what, two months now?  He deserves one.

No, he's got the flu:

Hi guys,

Toady has come down with the flu and has been sick for a couple days.  There will be no dev update tonight, but hopefully the future will be brighter tomorrow!

Toady is still sick.  His fever returned last night and he spent all day in bed.  He is awake now and is in a good mood and is mostly making sense.  To pass time, we have been compiling a list of all the video games we have played in our lives and asking if it was the setting, or the mechanics that made them our favorites.  That, and watching the I was Bitten / Forensic Files marathons on tv.