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[KaelGotDwarves]

I know the topic is derailish - But I wanted to add that I built a faster, cheaper core2duo E8500 3.16 ghz overclocked to 4 ghz machine instead of a core2quad (cause games aren't normally multi-threaded) for about $900 and it runs my largest magma-filled/waterfall DF fortresses with 200 dorfs at 50 fps average, with spikes up to 90 and lows of 20 when I collapsed a mountain on HFS. Without all those features I cap out at my cap of 200 fps normally.

It helps that I built it with games (especially DF in mind) and that I build it myself, also that I work in an electronics store.

On a secondary note, I'm going to start a thread about adventure mode suggestions, as it's been my dream for a long time that DF would be the ultimate RPG even if just Fortress Mode skills were allowed in Adventure Mode.

[Spey]

i dont know about you guys, but excavating large areas of the underground is something that routinely happens in my DF games, i dont see it having a massive processor hit all of a sudden. and as for critters roaming down there, in what way will it be different from hoardes of skeletal goats or harpies running around on the surface?

essentially this will probably be as big a performance hit as the introduction of sloped cliffs (in that theres a few more pathfinding options) and from what i remember, that wasnt really an issue. There isnt really any difference to having a few layers of underground caves vs a few extra layers of mountain as from a processing perspective its all just layers.

[Greiger]

I was writing a big old post but felt it would be too much flame so I deleted it all and started over.

[wall o' text rant]
It's Toady's game he'll do what he wants, he gets donations and tries to please as many people as he can but it is his entertainment first.  If he doesn't want to do threading I don't blame him.  A $300 vista computer can run DF with 67 z levels all features and 200 dwarves(+80 gobbos) at more than 50 FPS.  I think he still has some breathing room even if the caverns would have pathfinding issues(which I doubt).  Combine this with the D11 optimizations which if I understand it correctly will be merged with the new version I think this is panicking over the bridge out that's 5 miles away when you have fully functional brakes.  From what I've seen DF is still well behind most current games in regards to requirements.

If yer computer can't run a game, you don't complain to the developers that they need to stop adding features and gameplay to their game, or demand that they rewrite the entire game so that it runs better on your system.  Yes there should be some ability for sub par computers, but most developers provide such things. If you don't like removing what you have to to have the game run reasonably, you get a new computer or do a massive upgrade to your current one.
[/wall o' text rant]

Now,

If Scamps uses his teeth when he pulls out cords you could put some to that spray on all of them that is supposed to taste bad.  That might get him to stop.

[Volfram]

I don't have a clue what y'all are concerned about framerate for.  I've always played with weather, cave-ins, temperature, and other stuff turned on, and my framerates have been either a reliable 30-50 FPS(pre-graphical upgrade) or 100+ FPS(post graphical upgrade) on my dinky little 1.6 Ghz Celeron M processor.

It's really not that bad.

As for those who complain about the caves getting in the way of your fortress design...

WRONG!

YOU'RE DOING IT!

What's the point of a fortress if there are no underground features to find?  It's imminantly predictable.  There's no fun in knowing everything that's coming up.  That's not playing a game, that's a bizzarre version of Microsoft Paint where your paintbrush occasionally demands food and beer before it'll move again.

Fun requires not always knowing what's coming next.  The alternative is boring.

[Name Lips]

I am so, so, SO looking forward to underground features. Like ZOMG looking forward to them. I never found the surface world that interesting, but hell, it's more interesting than the underground we have now.

Just imagine folks, and tell me you're not excited too: an aboveground river, flowing belowground, a huge Jules-Verne-esque underground network of caves, mysterious fungus gardens, lakes, underground seas... evil civilizations waiting around the corner. An intrepid band of dwarves delving into this area, fortifying against the more dangerous caverns, but risking their lives in search of platinum. Imagine that in order to get magma or water to the correct place in your fortress you need to construct aque(magma)ducts and tubes, networks of pumps, going up above around and below the more dangerous features, until you finally get it where you want it, the heart of your fortress...


How is this NOT cool? Sure you can't know ahead of time whether you have the space for your Perfectly Symmetrical Fractal Fortress... But I think having unexpected and surprising features is a lot more important than a pretty fort.

[Gauphastus]

I know I certainly won't mind making an initial mini-fort, taking my time to tame the caves below, and then expanding safely. I absolutely love the idea of roughing it for a bit as you slowly settle a piece of land.
With constructions, it's easy enough to adapt the cave to your fort's design. Or you could simply incorporate the cave into it instead.

With this sort of fog of war thing also being added (I think?), it'd be nice to be able to get somebody to go down there and chart the area for me.
Or perhaps in adventure mode, this could be a potential job opportunity. :3

[NeedsDF2GetThruWorkingDay]

I get about 16 FPS, and I don't really see a problem with it. Stuff moves, and I find myself clicking, giving orders, and adjusting things with few pauses. I love the music... I'll turn it off for an hour, when I get tired of it, then I'll turn it back on and start humming along with it. There's so much to like about this game. When other creatures become more dangerous than the fish, the game will be perfect.

[Gertack]

If yer computer can't run a game, you don't complain to the developers that they need to stop adding features and gameplay to their game, or demand that they rewrite the entire game so that it runs better on your system.  Yes there should be some ability for sub par computers, but most developers provide such things. If you don't like removing what you have to to have the game run reasonably, you get a new computer or do a massive upgrade to your current one.

My 250 dwarf map takes over 10 minutes for "Cleaning game objects".  236,047 stones, yar! Sometimes it is just O(n^2) smacking you on the head.  Not that I want anything removed -- I can just run the fort 24/7 and even at 0 FPS it'll progress eventually.

I'm looking forward to the underground being more than just a big, empty canvas.  Sometimes you want a little splatter to work around. Although there are the little things too, that would mean a lot -- like my silly human liaison being replaced.

[GlyphGryph]

Oh man, I'm so looking forward to this - having always been a fan of designing my fortresses organically, the caves alone will be wonderful since I now won't have to spend 3 years with everyone mining to MAKE caves to build my fortresses around once.

I'm also really that in addition to static lakes, we get underground rivers piercing caves, so you get something where (from the side)
                                                                                ^^--^---^---^
                                     ___________                        /                        \
River         _____________/   vvvvvvvvv  meets cave     |                          |
_________/  vvvvvvvvvvvvv/                                       \                        /
vvvvvvvvvv/                                                               \_____________/

to get

                   ^^--^---^---^     ______             
Lake          _/                        \_/  vvvvv
_________/                          vvv/                 
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv/
               \_______________/

[Footkerchief]

                   ^^--^---^---^     ______            
Lake          _/                        \_/  vvvvv
_________/                          vvv/                
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv/
               \_______________/

See, that would just be ridiculously hot.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Another idea, as the caves are being formed any gemstone tiles that are being deleted should instead be preserved and moved down a level and left exposed on the cavern floor for us too find (probably not even requiring mining).  This would make the caves a desirable place to go gem collecting while also being consistent with standard fantasy lore and geology, the possibly dangerous animals would balance the rewards.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I want to see cave formations, personally--cave pearls, flowstone, stalactites, stalagmites, etc. I don't even care if they're worth anything material.

They'd be nice to preserve, though, as a sortof dwarf "park".

Salt and other mineral deposits also come to mind, in drier caves.

Will there be ice caverns under glaciers, by the way?

[sweitx]

If yer computer can't run a game, you don't complain to the developers that they need to stop adding features and gameplay to their game, or demand that they rewrite the entire game so that it runs better on your system.  Yes there should be some ability for sub par computers, but most developers provide such things. If you don't like removing what you have to to have the game run reasonably, you get a new computer or do a massive upgrade to your current one.

My 250 dwarf map takes over 10 minutes for "Cleaning game objects".  236,047 stones, yar! Sometimes it is just O(n^2) smacking you on the head.  Not that I want anything removed -- I can just run the fort 24/7 and even at 0 FPS it'll progress eventually.

I'm looking forward to the underground being more than just a big, empty canvas.  Sometimes you want a little splatter to work around. Although there are the little things too, that would mean a lot -- like my silly human liaison being replaced.

I'm not sure if "Cleaning game objects" would require a O(n^2) time complexity.  Unless of course somehow most objects need to "clean" its relationship with most other objects.  If its just scanning and collecting the object together to be saved, it should just be O(n), or at worst O(n*log(n)) if it needs to traverse some form of quad tree to find each item.

I'm REALLY excited about so many different things.  First the squad control, so I can now have an almost permanently manned outpost near the edge of the map.

And the underground feature...  I really hope it will be populated by critters of various kind, so I can build an underground observatory (hanging platform with windows and glass floor).

Maybe dwarves should get happy thought seeing a wild creature they like (instead of always running away from them).

[bombcar]

That's not playing a game, that's a bizzarre version of Microsoft Paint where your paintbrush occasionally demands food and beer before it'll move again.

Good stuff! 

[SirHoneyBadger]

My 250 dwarf map takes over 10 minutes for "Cleaning game objects".  236,047 stones, yar! Sometimes it is just O(n^2) smacking you on the head.  Not that I want anything removed -- I can just run the fort 24/7 and even at 0 FPS it'll progress eventually.

You know, that's how I feel too. I don't honestly care if it takes a long time for the game to do something, as long as it's something extraordinary.

That's one of the reasons I'm getting a quad. On the surface, it does nothing for DF by itself, but the great advantage is that I should be able to devote a core to the game, while devoting atleast one more-if not two-to other games. Fast or slow, it'll get there eventually.

Distraction is a powerful-and too often dismissed-force.