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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3632154 times)

Chthonic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13230 on: February 26, 2010, 08:39:57 pm »
I would love to see an Avatar-budget DF movie.  Not a DF version 1 movie . . . a DF alpha movie.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13231 on: February 26, 2010, 08:56:50 pm »
Ok now irequest a script from threetoe for a Df-movie of LOTR dimensions and Pandora effects. or....

Actually we have those beautiful historys, important people etc. and we have actually pretty decent rendering software. Lets say we export the legends etc. in whatever format. Read out the safe-files for the Mapdata and so on. After this is done we feed all those data to a custom renderer and gen for every player his/her own movies of total epicness.

That brings another question up. If we get a better export feature, could we get a nice readable export feature for maps too? As in: Every tile gets exportet? Maybe with a triggers for details like Buildings, animals, items? This way we could generate a Google-earth like app or something with which we could see what dwarves might see.
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AbacusWizard

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13232 on: February 26, 2010, 08:59:01 pm »
Boatmurdered: The Movie would be epic.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13233 on: February 26, 2010, 09:01:02 pm »
Quote from: Heph on February 26, 2010, 08:56:50 pm
That brings another question up. If we get a better export feature, could we get a nice readable export feature for maps too? As in: Every tile gets exportet? Maybe with a triggers for details like Buildings, animals, items? This way we could generate a Google-earth like app or something with which we could see what dwarves might see.

What do you mean? We can already export historical maps.
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Cardinal

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13234 on: February 26, 2010, 09:23:55 pm »
Quote from: jamoecw on February 26, 2010, 03:16:56 pm
so your example of support is someone using it?  the differences between the two are moot for the purposes of DF.  in a nutshell xml is a robust version of html, and json is a stripped down version of java.  since json is leaner than xml it can run faster, however since it uses java as its primary tool it won't run faster in the long run.  if that changes then it will run faster in the long run, but that is a big if.  now since we are using it for exporting information, which is done on a computer rather than over the net we don't have to worry about bandwith issues, or how well a tool can process the stuff inside of an open browser, nor how it affects other pages/tabs.  once that stuff is removed the only functional difference is that json reads closer to that of text, which is what it is now, thus changing it to something that reads worse (xml or json) is a step backwards.  you have the same info in the document, thus converting is trivial, and since converting a document rarely takes a noticeable amount of time when being run right before some sort of application it becomes pointless what format is used in regards of app compatibility other than whether or not the information is there.  in the end text is slightly better than json, which is slightly better than xml, at least for our purposes (and thus text is the clear winner since it is already in that format).

Yes, I've noticed a strong correlation between an active userbase and the value of a standard.  However, you'll notice in my earlier post that I made all the same points you did.
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Igfig

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13235 on: February 26, 2010, 10:48:54 pm »
Quote from: madjoe5 on February 26, 2010, 06:50:31 pm
Can we see the raws for spears, swords and crossbows? I want to see how stick chances and ranged weapons are handled.

Sure.

Quote from: Toady One on November 17, 2009, 10:06:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It looks to me like edged attacks all have a chance of stuckins, which increases with penetration size.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 10:51:43 pm by Igfig »
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Thndr

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13236 on: February 26, 2010, 10:49:15 pm »
Quote from: smjjames on February 26, 2010, 09:01:02 pm
Quote from: Heph on February 26, 2010, 08:56:50 pm
That brings another question up. If we get a better export feature, could we get a nice readable export feature for maps too? As in: Every tile gets exportet? Maybe with a triggers for details like Buildings, animals, items? This way we could generate a Google-earth like app or something with which we could see what dwarves might see.

What do you mean? We can already export historical maps.

I think he means he wants to make a large large large large map. Of every tile viewable from the sky. Maybe even multiple resolutions for smaller maps (like you see in fortress mode site finding)

So the maps available would be World(What you see on worldgen), Region, Area, Local(1:1, huuuge map) sizes
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13237 on: February 26, 2010, 10:49:45 pm »
Quote from: smjjames on February 26, 2010, 09:01:02 pm
Quote from: Heph on February 26, 2010, 08:56:50 pm
That brings another question up. If we get a better export feature, could we get a nice readable export feature for maps too? As in: Every tile gets exportet? Maybe with a triggers for details like Buildings, animals, items? This way we could generate a Google-earth like app or something with which we could see what dwarves might see.

What do you mean? We can already export historical maps.

My bad. Ok currently on historical maps (iirc) we see only bigger regions etc. What i want is a export feature where we can go down to item-scale. So i want to be able to see/get the exact position of a placed chair for example.

edit: what i want is what Thndr said ;)
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13238 on: February 26, 2010, 10:57:08 pm »
I get what you mean now, however, the file size of that would have to be HUGE.

It depends on how the whole thing would work.
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Innominate

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13239 on: February 26, 2010, 11:21:02 pm »
Quote from: smjjames on February 26, 2010, 10:57:08 pm
I get what you mean now, however, the file size of that would have to be HUGE.

It depends on how the whole thing would work.
48*48 tiles per embark tile is 2,304 tiles per embark. There are 16*16 = 256 embark tiles per world tile, giving us 589,824 tiles per world tile. Even a pocket world at 17*17 would have 170,459,136 tiles in it. Even assuming we somehow only needed one byte per tile (whereas currently we need an entire byte just for the water level) and keeping in mind that this is only for a single z-level, this is over 162 megabytes.

A full-information export is clearly out of the question. Even with massive simplification, including having lower-resolution maps for "uninteresting" areas (which could just mean those in which the player has never acted), it would be prohibitively expensive to do.

Besides, most of the information would be essentially meaningless; the geography of the entity sites in the game has absolutely no bearing on their function during worldgen - Toady had to make optimisations like that so that worldgen would take minutes instead of years to run.

The best you can hope for is yearly exporting of fortress maps, something which is possible in the current version.

And really, releasing raw data rather than a sanitised historical map would reveal the structure of the game's memory, something which I assume Toady would rather keep to himself.
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madjoe5

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13240 on: February 26, 2010, 11:50:46 pm »
Quote from: Igfig on February 26, 2010, 10:48:54 pm
Quote from: madjoe5 on February 26, 2010, 06:50:31 pm
Can we see the raws for spears, swords and crossbows? I want to see how stick chances and ranged weapons are handled.

Sure.

Quote from: Toady One on November 17, 2009, 10:06:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It looks to me like edged attacks all have a chance of stuckins, which increases with penetration size.

Thank you. For some reason, the source that I found when i searched for weapon raws gave me the mace and war hammer raws only. AFAIK, modding in new weapons is going to be interesting again when it comes to balancing, particularly with the numbers being in the 1000s
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13241 on: February 27, 2010, 12:04:11 am »
Well some people are currently were reverse-engineering the save files but have not finished theyr work. They are ziped with one of the standart librarys for zipping (iirc the same 7 zip uses). Anyway theo-practicly you need only a small amount of bytes to address the features of 85% of the tiles since most of them is unaltered stone or not inhabitet tiles. For those things you can keep lists. Like: tiles x y and z are granite. So actually for 85% of the tiles you keep only some bytes while the game calculates everything else.

There is a very deep treasure of tricks to keep the HD-memory usage small. Like you could say that material X is the basematerial of a z-level and at the points A B and C you get a deposit with seed N and the material Y. calculate once on load anew and add changes by the player. Presto you have saved some hundred MB disk-space.

I would have to dig some things up here - which i would need to check thought - to make an educated guess how the Map is represented in the safe-files.

Gah if i had time i would start a save-file-hack project by myself to feed one of this crazy visualizers with the data.
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furrot

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13242 on: February 27, 2010, 02:26:53 am »
A magmaman and a fireman fought in a comic I like called One Piece lately. My first thought when seeing this was that I should check Dwarf Fortress for verification. The magmaman won in this case.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/573/16-17/

Also the effects of magma on the face were well demonstrated.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/575/06-07/

Can things burn hot enough that there is no smoke in DF?  There seems to be a lot of future fun with enhancements to fire and smoke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashover
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13243 on: February 27, 2010, 02:33:57 am »
I just noticed that I pretty much haven't played DF in the last month. Part of that is because of work issues, but the rest is because of the ever-looming Update.

I want to, but then every time I think about it, I end up going "Nahhh...just wait a little longer".
I still check the boards every day, and the Development pages religiously (am I the only one?), but when it comes to actually getting a game going, it seems almost not worth starting a Fortress that I'll likely never get around to finishing once the next installment hits. 

So I was wondering: How many people have stopped, or atleast slowed down, playing DF until the new update gets here?
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Genoraven

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #13244 on: February 27, 2010, 02:41:37 am »
I know I have. It's really a psychological barrier. Its also not really a challenge. Well it still is, in finding a suitable site, but in actually surviving a fortress, it's not hard. Especially when my champs can chew pretty much anything to pieces. Well, besides like
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
. But that's a whole different ballpark. I mean that there isn't any real threats to the forts.
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