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[SirHoneyBadger]

That's why dorfs should be doing all the really heavy tunneling...

Lungfish already came up with the perfect miracle solution, in my opinion.
I feel it solves a ton of problems that keep coming up, in a reasonable, controllable, and very fair way.

Goblins and such could maybe cut through soft stone, given time and opportunity, and antmen shouldn't ever be stopped by soil, but granite and comparable should be the province of dorfs. And possibly, maybe, maybe, MAYBE some kind of HFS, just to make it extra-spicy.

I also think that constructed metal (bronze, and maybe some kind of phosphor iron) walls should be extremely difficult to cut through, even by seiging dorfs.

[Sowelu]

I figured that dwarves dig so fast because they have an invisible infrastructure.  They are assumed to have full control of the site for the most part, so they can usually do abstract things like "haul abstract debris to the surface / offsite / whatever WITHOUT being shot by angry dwarves".  I mean...maybe that's taking abstraction a bit far, but it seems reasonable to me that regardless of what race you are, being "in control" of a site should give you faster digging speed than not being in control.

[EvilMoogle]

Hmm..  That brings up a good question.  Given that this depends on goblin civilians, will we see:

"Goblin cancels task: dig; interrupted by Dwarf?"

[Zesty]

How about tunneling without the tunnels? Magic dirt displacement?

At worst, it'll leave a "shifted dirt" tile, or some such.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I figured that dwarves dig so fast because they have an invisible infrastructure.  They are assumed to have full control of the site for the most part, so they can usually do abstract things like "haul abstract debris to the surface / offsite / whatever WITHOUT being shot by angry dwarves".  I mean...maybe that's taking abstraction a bit far, but it seems reasonable to me that regardless of what race you are, being "in control" of a site should give you faster digging speed than not being in control.

I'm not sure if the "invisible infrastructure" part of this makes a whole lot of sense, atleast to me, but the rest is a very good point: If you control a site, you should naturally be able to tunnel faster and better, and even move across the controlled land faster, because of your familiarity with the territory.

And yeah, maybe seigers also have to deal with removal of dirt and stone waste, that our dwarfs currently magic out of existence, or whatever.

[jimi12]

I don't understand all of the complaints about tunnelers ruining stone walls. I think a fort would look way cooler after the remnats of past seiges remained to remind the dwarves of the ever present danger of attack and the strength the dwarves muster. I think though that tunneling should be limited to trolls or perhaps some sort of seige equipment so we dont have 30 tunneling goblins. However I think all materials should be able to be tunneled, with stone and metal taking much, much more time to bore through.

Universal tunneling makes fortresses obsolete. Seriously, why bother to build a fortress if any goblin with a pick can crack it? I hope we get stone of different hardness, and material requirements to mine it (eg. steel picks for the hardest stones). That would solve a lot already. I'm of the opinion that only dwarves should be a real threat when it comes to mining through rock. Humans and goblins should do well enough to mine surface ore, but otherwise their digging is restricted to soil (which will still be a threat to your food supply, so that's really a big headache already).

Really, just changing the scale of digging speed should be sufficient...  If it takes the gobbo's a year to dig into your fortress, and you aren't prepared for them to break through (or, more realistically, flooding the tunnel)...

meh

This makes sense. It still leaves dwarves the unique ability of digging through stone at 1000x faster than other races and it would provide goblins opportunity to be able to attack if you wall yourself in. I would assume too that if you built a bronze wall and it's taking the goblins a year to bore through, the rest of the non-digging goblins would be attempting something else (ladders, seige towers, battering ram) that would hopefully work before the tunneling is complete. This way tunneling really is a last resort.

[idgarad]

The simplest thing is to give another option similar to "Smooth Walls" as "Reinforce Wall" that can't be dug through. Problem solved as the look and feel crowd can just Reinforce their outer walls. Problem solved. Next thread please

[Granite26]

The simplest thing is to give another option similar to "Smooth Walls" as "Reinforce Wall" that can't be dug through. Problem solved as the look and feel crowd can just Reinforce their outer walls. Problem solved. Next thread please

How would you reinforce a wall?

[idgarad]

The simplest thing is to give another option similar to "Smooth Walls" as "Reinforce Wall" that can't be dug through. Problem solved as the look and feel crowd can just Reinforce their outer walls. Problem solved. Next thread please

How would you reinforce a wall?

The same way I smooth a wall.

[Sowelu]

I think the question was how do you do it game-wise.  To which my response is, with the dwarven equivalent of rebar or something.  So, you use SOME metal, without replacing the entire wall with a giant block of it.

[RAM]

Alternatively you could build a fortification and start shooting at them while they try to dig...

[Jayce]

How about just allowing some units to fly over gaps and traps on the back of other beasts,maybe when magic is added allow some sort of external magic attack.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Using metal to fortify and hold together constructions has plenty of historical basis. It was done everywhere from Machu Picchu, to the Roman Colosseum.

[Granite26]

Using metal to fortify and hold together constructions has plenty of historical basis. It was done everywhere from Machu Picchu, to the Roman Colosseum.

I don't hate the idea, I was just questioning the 'just like smoothing walls' implimentation.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yeah, I don't much like that, either. It's too much of an oversimplification, and wouldn't require any additional, expensive materials, unlike reinforcing with bronze, lead, phos iron, etc.