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[Cthulufaic]

God this discussion reminds me that in part 3 of JJBA both Jotaro and Kakyoin are both in highschool(as well as younger than me?!?!), and that in part 1 Jonathan and Dio are JUST graduating college.
I always forget how young characters are(or old, in Joseph's case).

[Neonivek]

I've kind of noticed that with a lot of anime that tries to paint the character as "a loser" because of his super exaggerated expressions and attitude.

are also animes where everyone is exactly the same way...

But then again I never thought Anime in general was particularly good at making "Loser" characters, at least when they are the main character. As it always ends up being an informed trait or a result of everyone else in their universe being evil.

At least I've pretty much never seen a "Loser" character who was legitimately a loser outside one movie that I never actually seen myself... but the point of that movie was supposed to be that he wasn't really a loser and that really it was how society chooses to paint the less fortunate.

[itisnotlogical]

Shinji from Neon Genesis Evangelion is a legendary anime loser. Most of his character arc consists of him failing his objectives, running away from his problems, not being able to cope with life as an Eva pilot, and generally being bad at everything he does.

That said, I'm in the mood for a really girly romance anime. Something with a lot of melodrama and a female protagonist. If anybody else has seen it, something like Say "I Love You" would be cool.

[Neonivek]

Ahh yes Shinji is definitely one. The entire point of his character is that he is someone who, in the normal world, would be carted for psychiatric help and wouldn't be anywhere near the battlefield. Yet, because everyone is desperate, he is constantly moved towards it... and he isn't really special in any real way... Sure he is the "best pilot" but from the viewer's point of view the reason he is "the best" is because he is the worst (which is kind of a weird irony. The worse pilot you are, the better you pilot it)

So there we have exactly one.

[itisnotlogical]

Well, counting only the original show, he does have the most solo combat victories.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- First/second episodes were all Shinji.
- The snake tentacle angel was all Shinji.
- Ramiel (diamond prism thing) was Shinji, with Rei holding up the shield (she didn't even have to be in the suit, come to think of it; just get it into position, eject the pod and crawl out)
- Shinji beat Zeruel, after both Asuka and Rei were taken out. It's debatable whether Shinji was in charge of the final blows though.
- Shinji took out Kaworu, putting Unit 02 out of commission along the way.

[Neonivek]

Yeah but if my assessment of the show is correct those victories have less to do with Shinji's skills or any real talent... and more to do with just how the EVA works and his lack of a mental state.

It would be like if he had a car that was fueled by Crazy... except... that is almost literally what an EVA is.

[Frumple]

Ahh yes Shinji is definitely one. The entire point of his character is that he is someone who, in the normal world, would be carted for psychiatric help and wouldn't be anywhere near the battlefield.

In the normal world, he probably never would have needed psychiatric help at all, even if he did end up on the battlefield. With his mom still around and his dad (both of which were incredibly high functioning individuals, and the latter in particular entirely capable of raising a healthy kid if he actually gave a damn regarding doing so) not trying to break existence in response to her dying, it's pretty damn likely he would have turned out healthy. Dude was a decent musician, by all appearances fairly intelligent and actually pretty capable of holding himself together, just more or less abused and neglected and then thrown into battle with eldritch abominations. Not really a loser for cracking under that kind of pressure... more just, y'know, normal. Human. He reacts better to his situation than most people would, really, it's just that the situation is pretty incredibly shitty.

Now, some of the ways he responded... yeah, that was being a proverbial degenerate, but in general, well. He didn't kill himself, and that's better than some of the characters in the show :V

[Flying Dice]

All jokes aside, I'd like to see some of the people who complain about Shinji being a "whiny little bitch" keep their shit together in his shoes. 

[Neonivek]

Ahh yes Shinji is definitely one. The entire point of his character is that he is someone who, in the normal world, would be carted for psychiatric help and wouldn't be anywhere near the battlefield.

In the normal world, he probably never would have needed psychiatric help at all, even if he did end up on the battlefield. With his mom still around and his dad (both of which were incredibly high functioning individuals, and the latter in particular entirely capable of raising a healthy kid if he actually gave a damn regarding doing so) not trying to break existence in response to her dying, it's pretty damn likely he would have turned out healthy. Dude was a decent musician, by all appearances fairly intelligent and actually pretty capable of holding himself together, just more or less abused and neglected and then thrown into battle with eldritch abominations. Not really a loser for cracking under that kind of pressure... more just, y'know, normal. Human. He reacts better to his situation than most people would, really, it's just that the situation is pretty incredibly shitty.

Now, some of the ways he responded... yeah, that was being a proverbial degenerate, but in general, well. He didn't kill himself, and that's better than some of the characters in the show :V

Sure if we entirely altered his life, he would be living a different life.

But what I mean is that normally if a soldier was having any of the issues he was having they would pull him from the front lines and move him to the back lines or even out of the war. The point is that they are so desperate that they keep sending in a psychologically compromised person again and again deepening his wounds.

The way he acts even when he acts in a degenerate way isn't actually abnormal for that level of continuous trauma... But there is a reason you don't have people run for a poop bucket when someone is about to give birth, there are just some details you want to ignore because they are too uncomfortable for the reader.

[Frumple]

*waggles hand* They sorta' weren't actually that desperate (see: Dummy plugs, the whole actual goal for most of the folks in charge.), it's just that... most of the movers and shakers in the Eva universe are colossal, literally world-ending, jackasses. It's not so much desperation as gendo giving precisely zero shits as to what happens to shinji. Seele helps :V

There's several fanfics out there that explore the premise of "What if everyone in power in the NGE continuity weren't unmitigated bastards?" Lot of time reasonable extrapolation ends up with a significantly better situation even if only one or two of the big power movers aren't, nevermind the lot of them.

[Neonivek]

I would LOVE to read "What if they weren't idiots" or "What if they weren't immoral" fanfics of things...

I never knew people wrote those.

[Frumple]

That's... more or less the basis behind the whole "fix fic" thing. Or one of them, anyway. Is plenty of that, and ones with NGE in particular (gendo being less of an ass or momma ikari surviving being relatively common) are somewhat close to prolific. I'm actually kinda' surprised you haven't noticed Nobody Dies or its ilk...

[BlitzDungeoneer]

And then there's this thing.

[Furtuka]

*waggles hand* They sorta' weren't actually that desperate (see: Dummy plugs, the whole actual goal for most of the folks in charge.), it's just that... most of the movers and shakers in the Eva universe are colossal, literally world-ending, jackasses. It's not so much desperation as gendo giving precisely zero shits as to what happens to shinji. Seele helps :V

There's several fanfics out there that explore the premise of "What if everyone in power in the NGE continuity weren't unmitigated bastards?" Lot of time reasonable extrapolation ends up with a significantly better situation even if only one or two of the big power movers aren't, nevermind the lot of them.

And on the just very slightly more officialness, in SRW the Eva characters tend to end up much better in the end than in the canon story due to being surrounded by peers that can help them out in the fights and people in authority who care about them and are actual good role models.

...on a side note, it's always amused me that SRW is the primary source for one of the more important details about the Evangelion metaverse that was a pretty big piece of evidence behind the many theories about the nature of the Rebuild Movies

[itisnotlogical]

That's... more or less the basis behind the whole "fix fic" thing. Or one of them, anyway. Is plenty of that, and ones with NGE in particular (gendo being less of an ass or momma ikari surviving being relatively common) are somewhat close to prolific. I'm actually kinda' surprised you haven't noticed Nobody Dies or its ilk...

I never understood fix fics. I mean, you can like or dislike the fact that Shinji is a pathetic human being, but it's one of the core traits of the NGE story; half of the conflict arises from Shinji's daddy issues and Gendo's failings as a parent. Removing it takes away about half the conflict in all of NGE.

Not to say fan fiction changing things around is bad; I just prefer fanfiction to make a story more interesting, not less.