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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3121790 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22665 on: May 16, 2015, 08:21:27 pm »

Spoiler: FSN (click to show/hide)
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22666 on: May 16, 2015, 08:24:22 pm »

The issue is that people are talking past each other by not trying understand what the other person is saying when they say "harem". In anime, a harem is generally defined as any situation where there is one main male character, and almost all his interactions are with women. The characters do not need to be romantically connected. Any other main male characters will have "issues" which prevent them getting female attention, usually fat/ugly/bald/old/perverted/dickwads or similar.

This is such a common set-up for shows that it doesn't make sense to only limit the concept to the minority of shows where there are literally half a dozen girls chasing after a guy. Even most outright harem shows don't have that. See Love Hina for example. That's about the most classic harem you can get, and there is one designated love interest for the entire series.

Think about Steins;Gate, Clannad, Haruhi Suzimiya, Bakemonogatari. All of these revolve around one guy and a ton of girls who's onscreen lives revolve around him, and each series has a single secondary male character who none of the girls pay much attention to. Sure, you could not watch any of those shows because I told you there's a "harem", but you might be missing out on a show you'd like a lot.

btw, someone on myanimelist took offense at me labeling No Game No Life a harem, because NGNL doesn't feature a romance-related plot. Well, it has every harem element except for the romance, and I pointed out that there were no other notable male characters except the hero. They rebutted "but there was that one girls grandfather". Ok, so there's another male character, and it's a 70-year-old dude with a long beard. Seriously, I rest my case.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 08:28:49 pm by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22667 on: May 16, 2015, 08:29:18 pm »

Quote
That's about the most classic harem you can get, and there is one designated love interest for the entire series

Well that is actually typical for most "Romantic Harems".

Tenchi Muyo is actually quite unique in that it has no REAL designated true love.

It is why I gave a three types
1) All Love
2) No Love
3) True Love

Sakura Kiss (wrong name... I can never remember the name) for example... is a "reverse" Harem.

But the female lead only has two men who are romantically interested in her... But only one of them has a chance.

While in Ota No Prince... While everyone is romantically interested in her... it is spelled out quite explicitly that she picks no one.

Harems go in this order in terms of commonality

True Love > No Love > All Love
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i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22668 on: May 16, 2015, 08:34:36 pm »

Spoiler: FSN (click to show/hide)
That and the quote right afterwards were one of the best parts of the whole episode. :P

Harems go in this order in terms of commonality

True Love > No Love > All Love
I'll give you that there are three types, but I'm not sure I agree about your commonality ordering. (Though that's somewhat beside the point. :P)
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22669 on: May 16, 2015, 08:37:39 pm »

True love just means that there is one designated female character that we KNOW is the one he is getting with when all is said and done... It can include a second character at MOST (AKA the twist switch)...

in Dungeon for example... Lets face it... Is anyone but Aiz going to get with Bell? Even though so far she is so boring at this point even seeing her fight puts me to sleep. They COULD do a twist, but if they did... we all know who that person is.

They don't have to actually get together with this person... mind you. It just has to be quite obvious that even if another character suddenly made advances on him, that there would be a 0% chance that he would change his mind.
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Spehss _

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22670 on: May 16, 2015, 08:38:40 pm »

btw, someone on myanimelist took offense at me labeling No Game No Life a harem, because NGNL doesn't feature a romance-related plot. Well, it has every harem element except for the romance, and I pointed out that there were no other notable male characters except the hero. They rebutted "but there was that one girls grandfather". Ok, so there's another male character, and it's a 70-year-old dude with a long beard. Seriously, I rest my case.
Not only is that male character a 70 year old dude with a white beard, but iirc he's a dead 70 year old dude with a white beard.
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i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22671 on: May 16, 2015, 08:46:00 pm »

True love just means that there is one designated female character that we KNOW is the one he is getting with when all is said and done... It can include a second character at MOST (AKA the twist switch)...
Oh no, I get that. I was just wondering about how the ratio's compared between "All Love" and "True Love" when you start counting things up, and then how the two of them compared against "No Love" (which to me seems a bit more like a lumping together of the "clueless harem protagonist" setting and the rather rare "balanced harem" setting where you can't tell which one will "win" in the end).
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22672 on: May 16, 2015, 08:50:30 pm »

Balanced Harem is a "All Love" Harem.

No Love is where... it is clear the protagonist isn't going to pick anyone.

All Love is where the protagonist could conceivably pick anyone (well... at least 3 people).. Or pick everyone also works.

There could be Romance in No Love... heck there could be romantic feelings in No Love... But if the protagonist is clearly never going to act on it... then yeah...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 08:52:59 pm by Neonivek »
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22673 on: May 16, 2015, 08:54:38 pm »

Hell, Rozen Maiden is a harem. Except all the girls are either his sister or creepy living dolls. He's clearly not going to "pick" anyone. But shinku is still the designated girl.

Walkure Romanze (2013) was an unusual show. It's clearly ecchi harem, yet none of the girls are after the hero for romantic reasons. The girls are all training as knights for a jousting tournament, and they all want him to work as their squire since he's the best in that area and not working for anyone. The jousting animation was pretty cool.

Another one I watched was Shiwase no Pan, that's a fantasy show about a guy who works in a bakery with three hot girls, in a village on an island, and he interacts with other hot girls on their island. None of the characters show any romantic interests. It's still clearly in the harem genre just by having one guy surrounded by hot girls, even if most events are slice of life and not romance.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 09:02:09 pm by Reelya »
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penguinofhonor

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22674 on: May 16, 2015, 08:59:03 pm »

.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 06:13:38 pm by penguinofhonor »
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22675 on: May 16, 2015, 09:10:24 pm »

Some ideas for non-light / dark comedy anime:

Welcome to the NHK
Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
Watamote
FLCL
Baccano / Durarara
Paranoia Agent
Detroit Metal City
Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei

i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22676 on: May 16, 2015, 09:12:32 pm »

-snip-
Ah, that's how you are dividing it up.

I still don't think I necessarily agree with you on the rarities though. (If anything I'd probably put the "No Love" option as the rarest, and then have a very close fight between the "All Love" and "True Love" categories for first place.)
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Zangi

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22677 on: May 16, 2015, 09:15:26 pm »

Harem in itself is not bad, but its introduction tends to apply a negative modifier to likeability for me, as they tend to detract from just about anything else more interesting and/or 'here is the protagonist with all the love interests after them, please relate yourself to the protagonist'.  Obviously I'm not the demographic being pandered to.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22678 on: May 16, 2015, 09:17:24 pm »

I am honestly trying to think of an anime that was honestly a "All Love" harem that wasn't Tenchi Muyo...

They almost always have the ONE person who interferes with this.

Harem in itself is not bad, but its introduction tends to apply a negative modifier to likeability for me, as they tend to detract from just about anything else more interesting and/or 'here is the protagonist with all the love interests after them, please relate yourself to the protagonist'.  Obviously I'm not the demographic being pandered to.

It has to do with the fact that Harems are "set up with no pay off"

Remember how I said that the biggest issue in animes isn't that they try to pull off something interesting and original and just flat out fail... It is that they set up something interesting and original and just don't follow through because they were planning on something more boring?

Harems are basically just that.

They are just set up for a lot of boring paint by numbers romance most of the time.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 09:19:03 pm by Neonivek »
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i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22679 on: May 16, 2015, 09:33:54 pm »

Just take a look at the Marry Them All listing on the TVTropes page, it has quite a few examples, including a handful of non-anime/manga ones. (And at least a chunk of the Balanced Harem examples would count as well under your definitions).

Edit: One particular example that floats to mind easily is To Love-Ru.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 09:38:31 pm by i2amroy »
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