Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Warlord255]

So I just had one of my very few fighters suffer a terrible loss - his lover, a spearmaiden, was shot down beside him in battle, by a single bolt that killed her instantly. He, while trying to charge after the attackers, was shot in both arms, dropping both of his swords and falling to the ground; the culprits escaped after seeing their allies slain, and he never got his revenge.

Recuperating now in the barracks, he is... esctatic?! Because he saw a nice statue lately, and he talked to his lover recently, and he had a nice meal lately, and besides it all he's too jaded from battle to care.

Something about this bothers me.

I'd like to see emotional responses become a bit more pronounced, but without incurring too much hazard of increased tantrum spirals. The way to do this would be threefold; an "impact" for tragedy, an increase in difficulty for becoming jaded, and alternatives to berserk tantrumming rage.

1. Impact; Or, Who Cares About That Statue I Saw The Other Day?

Severe tragedy has a habit of wiping out the recent past's up notes in real life; so it should be in Dwarf Fortress, I'd argue. Simply put, the loss of a friend/lover/spouse (in that order) should clear the slate of recent happy thoughts. This needn't be complete, it could scale; a friend would wipe half, a lover three-fourths, and a spouse all.

In addition, certain happy thoughts - such as having talked to the deceased recently - could reverse. Seeing them die specifically ought to also incur more tragedy.

After serious trauma - lover or spouse dying - a dwarf ought to immediately go on break.

2. Jade is Valuable; Or, You Call That Tragedy?

As it stands, soldiers become jaded far too easily. I know, I know, it's a failsafe to make sure our armies don't crumble into emotional despair at the drop of a hat. But there's interest to be found in increasing the value of a jaded soldier. It would make scanning for hard-heartedly inclined soldiers at the start more worthwhile, and increase the importance of exposing recruits to real combat.

3. Alternatives to Tantrums; Or, I'm Going To Go Cry Some Before I Beat The Shit Out Of You.

Despite what the game would have you believe, not all sadness is expressed in rage. As such, alternatives to tantrums could be introduced alongside them, for people who have less angry/boiling-kettle personalities.
     -Weeping: The dwarf locks themselves in their room/a room and cries for an extended period/until a friend comes to console them through the door. Only disruptive effect is the incapacitation of the dwarf, and the possible barring of a room.
     -Sworn Revenge: The dwarf becomes vengeful towards the cause of their friends'/lovers'/spouses' death (goblins, animals, etc.) and volunteers for the military, training feverishly. At the first sight of the enemy, they go into a martial trance and are enraged. If they become unable to enact their revenge or are not allowed to join the military, they may become more likely to tantrum.

     -Cold Revenge: If, by contrast, the cause of death can be traced to another dwarf - a sparring accident, a pulled lever, a noble's decree - the dwarf may plot to murder the one responsible. This could lead to some interesting noble dynamics, such as attempted assassinations.

Just some thoughts. Share yours.

[Brendan]

I think another interesting way of dealing with the whole jadedness-nerfing-combat-emotions thing would also be to cause it to dull the effects of happiness, as well. So your hardened veterans might not be as affected by seeing death on the battlefield as much, but they won't be particularly happy about eating in a legendary dining hall either.

[Idiom]

He was planning to divorce her anyway, and this incident saved him from an awkward moment?

[Appelgren]

Good suggestions.

[Warlord255]

I think another interesting way of dealing with the whole jadedness-nerfing-combat-emotions thing would also be to cause it to dull the effects of happiness, as well. So your hardened veterans might not be as affected by seeing death on the battlefield as much, but they won't be particularly happy about eating in a legendary dining hall either.

That's one thing to add, but perhaps best kept for once jadedness is harder to attain; perhaps it could even be reversable to a limited degree.

[Tormy]

Hehe...the weirdness of the morale system -> happiness of the dwarves has been discussed before many times.
In a fortress of mine, I had a dwarf who lost both of his kids and his wife in the same siege. He was still esctatic, because of a legendary dining room and some minor stuffs. This is making no sense.
It would be easy to fix this problem. ->

What we have now:
X dwarf has lost a * recently -> -50,-30,-20,or -10 to the morale
* spouse
* friend to tragedy
* sibling to tragedy
* child to tragedy
* mother to tragedy
* father to tragedy

Should be changed to:
X dwarf has lost a * recently -> -80,-60,-45,or -30 to the morale
* spouse
* friend to tragedy
* sibling to tragedy
* child to tragedy
* mother to tragedy
* father to tragedy

[Warlord255]

Increasing the numbers alone doesn't solve the problem entirely. I still think that making your dwarves lose all happy thoughts (with happiness level reduced by a table like above) and become resistant to happiness-giving bonuses for a time would be the most realistic/interesting.

That said, child should be above friend in devastation quotient.

Also: A grudge-friend dying should give a happy thought. "Glad to be rid of an annoying acquaintance."

[Tiler]

Yeah, I think the main thing should be that people get used to their current situation; living in an amusement park would make you totally ecstatic for a while, but eventually, you'd just be living your days in your usual vague contentedness.

[Pilsu]

Sulking would be fine. I don't want to see dwarves tantrum after every damn death and kill the fort while doing it. Would also fix the infamous tantrum spiral, the instigators would instead go mope in their room or kill themselves. Then again, it'd probably turn into an emo spiral instead.    The demand for sliver barb dye would immediately go through the roof

The lover/parent should fetch the body him/herself and bury it personally and mourn afterwards, refusing to drink alcohol. Failure to provide a grave and letting the body rot in the graveyard pile would then cause a tantrum. Once the guilds are in, maybe have him go punch the undertaker in the face

People with dead relatives should go visit their grave during the winter

[Joseph Miles]

Should be changed to:
X dwarf has lost a * recently -> -80,-60,-45,or -30 to the morale
* spouse
* friend to tragedy
* sibling to tragedy
* child to tragedy
* mother to tragedy
* father to tragedy

You've obviously never met my mother

As for the idea, I like it. I've never had anyone get anything less than happy with most of my fortresses designed for killing off the inhabitants slowly.

[Tormy]

Increasing the numbers alone doesn't solve the problem entirely. I still think that making your dwarves lose all happy thoughts (with happiness level reduced by a table like above) and become resistant to happiness-giving bonuses for a time would be the most realistic/interesting.

Yeah, I agree. However this must be linked to personalities, just like in real life. You know some people just don't give a damn, even if their mother dies...

[Warlord255]

Increasing the numbers alone doesn't solve the problem entirely. I still think that making your dwarves lose all happy thoughts (with happiness level reduced by a table like above) and become resistant to happiness-giving bonuses for a time would be the most realistic/interesting.

Yeah, I agree. However this must be linked to personalities, just like in real life. You know some people just don't give a damn, even if their mother dies...

True, but it's hard as hell to notice those differences when everyone effectively acts the same (Man, this table sure is great!).