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[Granite26]

did you read what I said?  I explicitely described divine magic as being a performance catagory rather than a source.

On the top, you'd have different flavors of magic.  Runic, Artifact, Gem, Ritual, Arcane, Divine, whatever.  (I'm using arcane to refer to spells with guestures and words that are quick, ritual to refer to long, divine to refer to innate abilities like prayer or psionics)

So yeah prayer, but also psionics and chi/martial arts type abilities. 

Apparently a more in depth, less conotative list would help

Magic that involves enchanting an item without requirements
Magic that involves making an item magic from it's creation
Magic that involves making an item magic by adding materials to it

Magic that involves long patterns, components and knowledge
Magic that involves short patterns, components and knowledge
Magic based entirely on internals (I.E. Prayers, Psionics, Chakras, and innate shapechangers.)

I used divine because prayers, Chi, chakras, The Mind as the one true god are all forms of 'magic' deeply routed in a personal relationship with the divine that are all performed by force of will rather than through interacting with an outside magical force.  There's more to divinity than the traditional D&D cleric...

[Tormy]

I don't think as I said many times before... Divine will ever become a hands-on magic

Care to explain?

[Granite26]

To put words in his mouth (that I kind of agree with): Divine power should be in control of the divine being (rather than I pray to Thor, so I can throw lightning bolts at whatever I want)

[unobtaniumman]

Ya know what I think about magic?

Magic should be difficult, but have massive effects. No petty magic Missiles here- A spell should be a complicated, expensive ritual that creates Chasms, turns entire sieging armies into vermin, or makes ordinary stone turn to gold.

magic should be special.

[JohnieRWilkins]

I think the system that would work best is the one in Magic: The Gathering. The only source of magic in that universe is mana. Mana is acquired by specially trained wizzards through channeling artifacts. So in DF terms:

Urist McKogan cancels drink: Strange mood
Urist McKogan claims a mason's workshop
Urist McKogan begins a mysterious contruction
Urist McKogan has created fhduosafhsa dasdsada the dsaasd, an artifact tea kettle!
The wizard Urist McSmitepants has arrived!
Urist McKogan has suffocated in his sleep.

The wizard has a mana meter in general unit info. After a while, he'll get enough mana to study certain spells etc... and then cast something for you. What he casts will depend on his personality. Watch out, he might set a kitten on fire.

[G-Flex]

Quite frankly, mana meters are the last thing I want to see in DF. That would almost be as bad as hit points, not to mention a really cliche mechanic.

[Neonivek]

I don't think as I said many times before... Divine will ever become a hands-on magic

Care to explain?

Basically that you will probably never be able to pray someone healed... Pray that your sword is stronger... Pray that it will rain...

And it all is done as long as you either have the stats.. or if you have enough ferver points or any of the many names it has.

I would think it would be indirrect, mostly non-instantanious, and random

[Muz]

I like the idea of magic being dangerous to train, just the way it's dangerous to train soldiers. But with magic, armor doesn't really protect them from a stray fireball. Maybe they could train in shooting ranges.

[JujuBubu]

I would like to see a realm bound, slow and material dependent magic system.
at least in the fortress.

The dwarfs from the nordic myth were masters in the creating of magic/enchanted items.
and every other pantheon had their share of the ugly guy sitting in his forge down in some volcano or pit churning out magic stuff for the other gods while needing precious and rare materials.

One of the funny things is .. no one mentioned the alchemists yet. For me they would be an essential part of the magic system, providing your wizard with all that overly expensive crap to show off ( black dragon fat candles, bottles of gnome blight and kittens blood .. )

So i would like the magic system bound to large rituals and enchanting of items with a definitive religious side to it.

The megabeast wizards of lord of the rings where actually some kind of angels send by the allfather of middle-earth to look after his remaining creation.
that much about learning magic

For the enchanting/crafting part of the magic I would say .. legendary dwarfs ..
my weaponsmith turned legendary, which means he now is finally good enough in his
profession to start making crafts that are usable for magic purposes.
And I don't mean masterwork items, but a new kind of profession, that only legendary dwarfs are able to learn.
urist is now a legendary weaponsmith
urist is now able to learn runic weapons smithing.

[Osmosis Jones]

It's been said before, elsewhere, but I'll say it again for this thread; magic flows.

If you want magic to be under player control, this would allow it, as you would be able to direct magic where you wished in a manner similar to water or magma, via the use of some sort of special construction (runic engraved floors or somesuch).
This flow can then be used to saturate or starve areas with raw magic, where say 1-4 magic is harmless, 5-6 is dangerous to non-magic creatures, 7 is dangerous to everyone.

You want to build a golem? You'll need an enchanted craftshop, built upon a magic source.
You want to turn invading armies into frogs? Flood them with magic and let the raw thaumic energy wreak havoc.
Demons invading? Suck the magic out of the area, and watch as the wither and die like carp in the air.

The system also ties in well with other proposed systems, such as spellcaster creatures. E.g. Humie McMage cancels hurl fireball, insufficient magic (or alternatively in high magic areas, Humie McMage casts a fireball. It is superpowered!).

If done properly, the system would add no more fps burden then the small water-works system most people have set up, while allowing all the insane, ingenious, contraptions that we DF players love.

[Granite26]

I like the idea of magic being dangerous to train, just the way it's dangerous to train soldiers. But with magic, armor doesn't really protect them from a stray fireball. Maybe they could train in shooting ranges.

Yeah, but look at how people bellyache about training wounds...

[Tormy]

Quite frankly, mana meters are the last thing I want to see in DF. That would almost be as bad as hit points, not to mention a really cliche mechanic.

Well if something like mana wont be implemented, perhaps the old D&D memorizable spellsystem could work. Well IF there will be battlefield magic + battlefield spellcasters at all. This is the big question I guess.

[Granite26]

spell costs:

Point system : As simple as mp, or it takes hp, or something else
Fatigue system : Mana is tiring, just like lifting heavy rocks
Component system : the materials costs limit you.  Can't cast 'heal' without using up a hematite...
Ritual System : Spells take time to cast.
Recharge : Each spell can only be cast so often.  A spell can only be cast so often.
Free : Given how easy it is to kill someone with a thrown coin, why charge a magician anything for a force bolt?

D&D is just an obfuscated MP system with a few restrictions.

Anyway, taking a lead from the health system, I wouldn't be surprised if 'under the hood' was about 12 different mana pools with conversion factors and a visual layer that reflected your mental strain.  (I.E. after the third lightning bolt, your 'vision is a bit blurry', your 'weather' pool is empty and any further castings will draw X2 mana from the elemental pool and x10 from the healing pool.)

(I'm not suggesting a user viewable pool here... under the hood, our dwarf friends do have 'hit points' just like every other video game character)

[Neonivek]

Of course it can be a point systen AND a fatigue system...

Where your mana pool comes dirrectly... From a mana pool! (or whatever you use to harness magic)
-I am in the boat where I believe there should be a reason why Wizards would build a HUGE tower and amass armies. It should somehow make them better wizards!

And you use Fatigue to do it yourself

[Align]

Ya know what I think about magic?

Magic should be difficult, but have massive effects. No petty magic Missiles here- A spell should be a complicated, expensive ritual that creates Chasms, turns entire sieging armies into vermin, or makes ordinary stone turn to gold.

magic should be special.

I cannot quote this hard enough.