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Author Topic: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist  (Read 125995 times)

Bohandas

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #405 on: October 03, 2010, 11:25:25 am »

Yeah!  A great historical example are trip-hammers powered by waterwheels!  Those greatly increased the speed at which an armourer could produce sheet metal, and, from that armour!

Also, waterwheel powered bellows were very important in the mass production (relatively speaking) of wrought iron for use throughout Europe during a bulk of the middle ages (and probably muuuuch earlier as well).  The improvement of speed and quality of iron afforded by such a development had a truly massive influence on the course of civilizational history.

Exactly! Thank you!

There are a lot of things other than just mills and pumps that can be powered by a waterwheel (IRL), and it would be cool to see that reflected in the game.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 12:00:39 pm by Bohandas »
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Quietust

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #406 on: November 04, 2010, 12:09:11 pm »

As someone who has recently designed built an adder, just throwing in my $.02:
As far as mechanical logic goes, the most useful thing I can see being implemented is a rotation sensor, which would easily reduce the complexity, power requirements, mechanism requirements, size etc. of my adder by half or more, though I hear that point is a dead horse by now. They would need a delay, or it would be trivial to make a device that is both powered and unpowered.
A rotation sensor would be amazing. Complex mechanics wouldn't be so water-reliant any more.
Just giving this an obligatory bump - it'd be really useful to have, and it's probably not all that unreasonable for dwarves to implement: a weighted lever that is repeatedly pushed upward by a spoke on the end of an axle (in such a way that the lever lowers slowly enough to never turn off while the axle is turning, and such that axle would never stop in a position that the spoke would block the lever's movement). Build it from either one or two mechanisms (depending on how much we consider a single "mechanisms" to actually be), link it to buildings the same way you would for a lever or pressure plate, then connect machine power (ideally through a linked gear assembly). Have it consume a specific amount of machine power (e.g. 10), maybe even extra power for each trigger linkage it has (e.g. 5 per linkage), and have a delay between receiving/losing machine power and sending an on/off signal (probably 100 ticks like almost everything else, though less would be nice).
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Starver

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #407 on: November 05, 2010, 09:42:14 am »

...a weighted lever that is repeatedly pushed upward by a spoke on the end of an axle (in such a way that the lever lowers slowly enough to never turn off while the axle is turning, and such that axle would never stop in a position that the spoke would block the lever's movement...
On an axle, make two cross-bars, at right angles to each other and the axle and slightly displaced along the latter.  Have two 'bar sensing' slow-to-return levers, one for each crossbar, and even if one of the cross-bar spokes kept one lever permanently 'pushed' when the axle comes to rest, the fact that the other one is at this point free to return to nearly the axle-level could be harnessed to indicate the true sense of whether rotations are happening.

Alternatively, some kind of spinning-ball&moving-collar governor mechanism, although that sounds a little too Steam-age to be used at DF's current tech level.  But I can see the above done in bamboo or even working away on the edge of an ancient Mesopotamian irrigation system.

(Not really adding to game mechanics, here, just that this particular practical visualisation came to mind, even if the likes of Quantum Lever Connectivity is deemed sufficient explanation for some of the other things that happen in-game. :) )
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Waparius

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #408 on: November 06, 2010, 06:40:20 am »

The speaking tube idea would be useful if dwarven bureaucracy expanded more in lategame (needing to have messengers running to update noticeboards around the fort after it got to a larger size, mentioned here ->http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=69376.0), but until that sort of thing gets implemented it's hard to see other uses for it. Come to think of it it's hard to work out how that sort of thing would even be built. A pipe section and a mechanism at each end wouldn't really cut it, and pipes are kind of large.

Maybe a rope and a pair of tin buckets?
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RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #409 on: November 06, 2010, 06:38:11 pm »

Well levers currently work with no connection, and in real-life you can stick a pipe just about anywhere. And I still maintain that it could be useful for detecting ambushers and creating friendships.
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Andeerz

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #410 on: November 06, 2010, 10:41:55 pm »

Speaking tubes?  Neat!!!  I'm all for it.  Though it might be out of the time frame, it's a tech plausible with the given manufacturing capabilities of the dwarves.

It got me thinking about other primitive telecommunications technologies (which many probably wouldn't be that related to this thread, but they are cool!):

Optical telegraphy (heliographs and other signal lamps, fryctoria, and smoke signals), audio telegraphy (drums, whistled language, whistles, horns, and other instruments), carrier pigeons, etc.  Links to useful wikipedia articles about them can be found here 

ALSO!  Sensory technology (some of which I think has definitely been suggested at least elsewhere):
non-magnetic compass/direction sensor, odometers, siege mining sensors...

I'm going to have to go through this and see if I can find any more measuring devices and sensors and stuff that were available in medieval and older times.  :3
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Max White

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #411 on: November 06, 2010, 11:25:01 pm »

Well that is a rather impressive list there, so lets get to work judjng each and every item to its own merits shall we!
Steam: Great idea! Full support for this.
Other Gasses: Once again something great that I want to see made more avaliable and realistic in the raws atleast.
Electricity: I shall pass on this one. Not something I want to see.
Conservation of Energy: Without  question I want this. If it makes the game harder, then it makes the game more fun.
Gravity damage: Capital thought! Dropping bars on lead on incomming hoards is something I can relate to.
Moving Objects and Inertia: IF this can be done without eating FPS, go right ahead!
Moving and Rotating Walls: See above.
Tech Tree: Not realy. I think DF is more about application then invention. That is finding a new use for already existing things. Using things in a new and awesome way, then making new things.
Fluid Dynamics: YES! AND DOUBLE YES! To add to this.
+Add water and lava to the raws.
+Make all liquids able to fill a x/7 space, rather then just form puddles.
+Allow us to edit in new reactions between liiquids rather then just water + magma = obsidian + steam.
Fire: Yes, especialy if we get flamable gas.
Optics: Maybe later on, not as a high priorty right now though.
Construction: If concrete is the only thing to be suggested here, I shall pass over this as not detailed enough. I want to see more here.
Vehicles: No need to comment on whats planned, apart from I hope there is a lot of modifiable things in the raws.
Signal Propagation Delay: Don't we already have thi for some things?

Steam Turbine: Yes, even more so if we had more uses for rotating power.
Kinetic Battery: I think this is best left to player design. Like lava flood traps, they wouldn't be something we select from a menu, but rather something we build with our own hands, so to speek.
Chemical Battery: See above, also see Fluid Dynamics and suggested addition of reactions.
Capstan: We sort of already have this in the pump stack (Come to think of it, high water also acts as a Kinetic Battery) so once again, see above.
Furnace/Incinerator: I know we already have this! And the second one can be modded in, so not something you should ask toady for, rather the modding forum.
Combustion/Piston Engine: This would be too fun to build ourselves, even more so using the steam turbine and fire and water. Don't just let us be lazy and plonk one down.

Pipes: I have been making these for ages. Just halls that you don't let dwarfs into.
Waterproof Axle Section: I would support or not support this depending on how it was implmented.
Belts: Yes.

Heavy Doors: VERY YES!
Clocks: Maybe no. Let us have our fun building our own.
Bells: Full support.
Rock Grinders: Makes a lot more sence then using a bridge.
Workshops: I'm not sure what your asking here. We have these don't we?
Fans: Ok, if there is some sort of application.
Mechanical Lifts: YES!
Power Drills: I'm saying no.
Dwarf Trainers: Na, modders already do this and I'm not a big fan myself.

Vertical Pump: YES!
Spiggot: Wouldn't a flood gate do?
Pressure Equalizer: If there was no way for players to build there own, then ok.
Internal: See pipe.
Misters: I have been building these too for a long time.
Dams: How do you expect to build these from a menu? Realy? Apart from that, building already.
Tripwires: New trigger mechinisem for things? Isn't it similar to the pressure plate?
Cycling/Alternating device: Repeaters are easy to build as it is.
Fuses: I'm thinking the best implication of this would be to have something that let off flames a set time after a dwarf has lit it, meaning said dwarf would have to run for hes life. What could fit DF more?
Delay Boxes: ??? And I think you can already do this with water, flood gates and pressure pads.
Temperature Sensor: I would say no. If you want a temperature senser, have a goblin stand on a pressure pad. When it gets so hot or cold that he dies, the pressure pad is relesed.

Pressure Plates: Yes to all!
Weapon Traps: Yes to all EXEPT
+Make them require power: Yes for some traps, not others. A stone does not need power to fall.
Stone Traps: Yes
Drawbridge: Yes
Mechanisms: Yes to all bar make only out of metal. Make BETTER ones out of metal, but stone would also work.
+To add, make signal delay dependent on the distance from the trigger to the event and the quality of the gears. Metal gears are faster then stone ones,
Levers: Yes.
Traps: yes
Siege Engines: Yes
General Devices: YES

Small Traps: Sure, why not.
Mine Carts & Conveyor Belts: Super big yes.
Clocks: See clocks before.
Alarms & Bells: We have been over this you know.
Logical Operators: You can already do this.
Ability to hide floodgates/doors: Would be nice.
Small Mechanisms: With the things I have said I would like, I don't see how this would be needed.
Sound Pipes: Naaaaaaaa.

Gamli

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #412 on: November 29, 2010, 03:35:33 am »

The number of views and replies on this thread supports more focus on traps and mechanisms.  Let's be honest, the present state of the game leaves much to be desired.

On the other-hand, there isn't much yet in the game that demands complex mechanisms.

Basically for me it all comes down to this: If all I wanted was to run around killing goblins and dragons with swords and armor I'd sign-up for a WoW account instead, but no I play Dwarf Fortress because it offers more.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 04:52:21 am by Gamli »
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Mdort Goblinsmiter

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #413 on: November 30, 2010, 12:58:26 pm »

Quote
Temperature Sensor (Unclear if there are good period methods of making this work)

There are a few different ways to make this work, depending on exactly what you were trying to accomplish.

A ball of wax holding back a spring... incidentally this is how some emergency sprinklers work.  Alternatively, if you need a higher melting point you could replace the wax with lead, gold or anything else with a low melt point.

If all you wanted to detect were fire you could use a length of twine or a wooden peg holding back a mechanical element of some kind.

These devices wouldn't give you the precision of a thermometer, but it would be able to tell the difference between warm, hot, !!YIKES!! and OMGWTF MAGMA.
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Uristocrat

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #414 on: December 02, 2010, 12:56:05 am »

Quote
Temperature Sensor (Unclear if there are good period methods of making this work)

There are a few different ways to make this work, depending on exactly what you were trying to accomplish.

A ball of wax holding back a spring... incidentally this is how some emergency sprinklers work.  Alternatively, if you need a higher melting point you could replace the wax with lead, gold or anything else with a low melt point.

If all you wanted to detect were fire you could use a length of twine or a wooden peg holding back a mechanical element of some kind.

These devices wouldn't give you the precision of a thermometer, but it would be able to tell the difference between warm, hot, !!YIKES!! and OMGWTF MAGMA.

Considering that all I really wanted was the ability to detect fire, magma, freezing & normal temperatures, that's pretty reasonable to me.
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RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #415 on: December 02, 2010, 06:06:12 am »

It would also be single use...
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #416 on: December 02, 2010, 07:05:04 am »

It would also be single use...

You could reset it afterwards
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paladin_of_light

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #417 on: December 02, 2010, 02:50:50 pm »

What I've wanted to see is Donkey/Horse/Mule powered wheels. Put the animals to work!
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RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #418 on: December 02, 2010, 07:08:40 pm »

Add elf, goblin, dwarf, and prisoner to the above list...
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Granite26

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #419 on: February 22, 2011, 08:46:26 am »

What I've wanted to see is Donkey/Horse/Mule powered wheels. Put the animals to work!

Look up Capstan in the dictionary.

Max White:  can you wrap your comments in a spoiler tag?  Next time I'm at a real PC I'll add your comments on liquids.  Thanks for using the +'s, makes my job easier. 

The reason capstan =\= pump is involuntary/animal labor.

Edit:  droid rocks,  OP updated

Edit2  re-reading the old posts with an eye for the new features:  tie alarms to automated alert changes.  Goblin trips the pressure sensor,  auto change to Defend burrows 1, which has the troops run to stations nearby.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 09:06:00 am by Granite26 »
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