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[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I dont care about EAs feelings its just...
It just seems pointless to buy a game when you just played it for free, all its good for then is collecting dust.

By that logic, why pay money for Dwarf Fortress when you downloaded it for free? And legally, to boot?  Answer:  'Cause Toady gotta eat.  And despite the differences in situation, when you get right down to it so do all the people who worked hard to create and distribute every commercial video game you play.  There's no reason someone can't download a pirated game, and then buy a copy once they know it's worth the money being asked.  Breaking the law does not automatically entail disregard for the underlying moral or social principle.

Well then why not just buy the game then? Like I said if he dident like the game he pirated then he would not buy it. The people who worked so hard on it would starve and then who would be morally responsible?

And dont say he would buy every game becuase otherwise he would have no reason to pirate it in the first place.

Um... What?  You're saying it's morally wrong not to buy a bad game?

... What are you saying?

[Sean Mirrsen]

The "why would you buy a game when you've already played it" principle is true for games that are either just bad on the overall, or specifically bad by being absolutely linear and offering nothing new beyond the first playthrough. For most other games, especially games with vast replayability, the opposite often takes effect. I bought Supreme Commander after I tried the "full demo version" and liked it. I no longer buy games I don't like. I think demo versions don't always suffice for evaluating a game, sometimes you need to see the game whole to see just how good/bad it is. Spore Creature Creator is the prime recent example - by itself, it's fun and interesting. Spore, on the other hand, does not offer much beyond the creating aspect, and if I bought it without trying it out in full, I would be severely disappointed, much more than I am now.

[McDoomhammer]

Well then why not just buy the game then? Like I said if he dident like the game he pirated then he would not buy it. The people who worked so hard on it would starve and then who would be morally responsible?

And dont say he would buy every game becuase otherwise he would have no reason to pirate it in the first place.

It's the old shareware idea in practice, just less legal.  You download the game and play it.  If you like it, you buy a copy because it's good enough to justify paying for and it's only fair to support the people who made it.  If you don't like it, you neither play it nor pay for it.  That way you encourage people to make good games, the only way that really works- with money.

I believe that answers your question as to why someone would buy a game they downloaded.

As to why not just buy the game... well, no doubt some people feel that the big game companies have it all their own way.  They have billions of dollars to spend on ensuring that they have our money before we play their games, ignoring for a moment stripped-down demo versions.  Lots of inconvenience and expense for the law-abiding, all in the name of stopping the pirates who get the product without the inconvenient bits and free.  One might argue that the law and the amount of money and power they have puts the average gamer in an unfair situation whereby the companies can get away with overcharging them for a product which is sub-standard but profitable, a situation which will only get worse if people don't take action to level the playing field a bit by only paying for products which are worth the money.

Like I said, it's still entirely illegal.  But if you follow through- either pay or delete the game, no middle ground- I can't really see how it's wrong.

[Tormy]

I think that I will do the same Sean..Ive bought way too many games in the last years, and I do not even play with them...I was playing with some games for a couple of days only. I will wait for the demos from now on, its pointless to buy games, just because they are looking good..

[Tormy]

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=56054

Spore has sold through more than one million copies at retail worldwide since shipping worldwide on September 7th. To date, gamers have used the creativity tools in Spore to populate the universe with more than 25 million creatures, vehicles and buildings available to view in the Sporepedia.

Holy cow, 1 million copies has been sold already... 

[Servant Corps]

Ugh. I hate piracy, I really do, and I find no legit reason for it. It's immoral, it's wrong, blah, blah, blah, and I know nobody would agree with me, but I don't care. (I done it, and I feel morally bad for it, so don't say I don't understand.)

The reason is that by downloading the full game illegally, you are 'enjoying' the game "service", wheter you like it or not...and that enjoyment is what you are paying for. It doesn't matter if you pay money if you think you want to enjoy the game, I am sure that other pirates don't share the same "ethic", and in any event, what about the Game Company of the game that you hate? Don't they deserve payment?

Want an anology? You walk into a restraunt to go and buy the Colia VVjagn, a deliacy in Northwest Totalslava. You eat Colia VVjagn, and say it's terrible. So you tell the Waiter, "Hey Waiter, I'm not paying for the Colia VVjagn because it's terrible! Not even a tip!" So you walk away. Egad. And if you like the Colia VVjagn, you say, "Hey, Waiter, I'm going to pay for the Colia VVjagn!"

"What about the tip?" The Waiter ask.

"Tip! Hah! The very act of me paying for the Colia VVjagn is enough! I didn't have to pay for the Colia VVjagn, I'll just pay for the food if I like it and leave when I don't!"

That's how I am seeing that defense of piracy, and that why I'm upset about that defense. If you really like the game, you donate money to the game company and defend the game on webboards and give them good reviews. If you hate the game, you declare the game evil on webboards and give the game bad reviews. The money you pay for the service of the Game should be given up, either way (except if there is a 'refund' procedure, so you can receive your money back if you hate it).

I'm just upset about piracy. Hence my rant.

[Hoborobo234]

Spore is a creative tool with a game on it. Not a game with a creative tool on it. DF is both, well we have to find new ways of killin kittens.

[Sergius]

Ugh. I hate piracy, I really do, and I find no legit reason for it. It's immoral, it's wrong, blah, blah, blah, and I know nobody would agree with me, but I don't care. (I done it, and I feel morally bad for it, so don't say I don't understand.)

The reason is that by downloading the full game illegally, you are 'enjoying' the game "service", wheter you like it or not...and that enjoyment is what you are paying for. It doesn't matter if you pay money if you think you want to enjoy the game, I am sure that other pirates don't share the same "ethic", and in any event, what about the Game Company of the game that you hate? Don't they deserve payment?

Want an anology? You walk into a restraunt to go and buy the Colia VVjagn, a deliacy in Northwest Totalslava. You eat Colia VVjagn, and say it's terrible. So you tell the Waiter, "Hey Waiter, I'm not paying for the Colia VVjagn because it's terrible! Not even a tip!" So you walk away. Egad. And if you like the Colia VVjagn, you say, "Hey, Waiter, I'm going to pay for the Colia VVjagn!"

"What about the tip?" The Waiter ask.

"Tip! Hah! The very act of me paying for the Colia VVjagn is enough! I didn't have to pay for the Colia VVjagn, I'll just pay for the food if I like it and leave when I don't!"

That's how I am seeing that defense of piracy, and that why I'm upset about that defense. If you really like the game, you donate money to the game company and defend the game on webboards and give them good reviews. If you hate the game, you declare the game evil on webboards and give the game bad reviews. The money you pay for the service of the Game should be given up, either way (except if there is a 'refund' procedure, so you can receive your money back if you hate it).

I'm just upset about piracy. Hence my rant.

I love your analogy. In that case, DRM is like making you wash the dishes before getting the food, just in case you want to skip without paying the check.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Wash the dishes? Why? I'm fine eating in a used (by myself) plate.

[Ivefan]

Servant Corps, using your analogy, say I've been to Totalslavia and eaten Colia VVjagn a few times, i enter the same resturang and unknowlingly order the same terrible Colia VVjagn. i taste it and refuse to take another bite, complaining how horrible it was and declare i refuse to pay for something that would even scare the garbage can.
Now if the Colia VVjagn was good i would pay for it.

Where i'm living tip is something uncommon, the waiters are getting payed by their employers so why give them extra for doing their job? ofcource if the waiter was providing exceptionally good service i could be generous.

Using this analogy, The resturant in this case would be EA and the cook Maxis. Maybe the cook made good Colia VVjagn originally but The resturant owner suddenly decided that Colia VVjagn should be made this way instead, which caused my distaste.

Considering that one is unable to return a bad game(or computer software in general), how is one supposed to tell if its bad before trying it. Say i boot the game up, play for a few minutes or so just to get a feeling of it only to realise how extremly horrible it actually is and immediately uninstall it and never again think of it. So as customers are unable to return the product the only thing EA cares about is if it actually sells, not if the customer is satisfied.
that's like having the waiter throw your Colia VVjagn onto the table from the kitchen and then demand tip

[Areyar]

geez!

I'm just saying anything touched by EA or WW from now on is suspect in my book.
I won't trust previewers because they mostly disagree with me about what makes a game worthwile and I suspect many of them of taking bribes from high-publicity (not a typo) houses like EA.
So I'll just wait for a FREE pirated version to check it out before deciding it is worth my financial support.
(or a trial in which actual gameplay and a hint to scope of complete game can be assesed)

I don't agree with the notion of "why pay for it if you can take it for free?"
It is against my principles. Which also are highly inflamed by being ripped off. (and NO! religious pricks dont have a monopoly on principles)
Also I feel we would be surprised as to how many people would pay monetary tribute for a free game they happen to like.
Not for EA though, they lost any 'feelgood' long ago.
Fresh unblemished companies could however start a loyal customer base.

Mutual respect and trust is the key factor here.

[Brendan]

Ugh. I hate piracy, I really do, and I find no legit reason for it. It's immoral, it's wrong, blah, blah, blah, and I know nobody would agree with me, but I don't care. (I done it, and I feel morally bad for it, so don't say I don't understand.)

The reason is that by downloading the full game illegally, you are 'enjoying' the game "service", wheter you like it or not...and that enjoyment is what you are paying for. It doesn't matter if you pay money if you think you want to enjoy the game, I am sure that other pirates don't share the same "ethic", and in any event, what about the Game Company of the game that you hate? Don't they deserve payment?

Want an anology? You walk into a restraunt to go and buy the Colia VVjagn, a deliacy in Northwest Totalslava. You eat Colia VVjagn, and say it's terrible. So you tell the Waiter, "Hey Waiter, I'm not paying for the Colia VVjagn because it's terrible! Not even a tip!" So you walk away. Egad. And if you like the Colia VVjagn, you say, "Hey, Waiter, I'm going to pay for the Colia VVjagn!"

"What about the tip?" The Waiter ask.

"Tip! Hah! The very act of me paying for the Colia VVjagn is enough! I didn't have to pay for the Colia VVjagn, I'll just pay for the food if I like it and leave when I don't!"

That's how I am seeing that defense of piracy, and that why I'm upset about that defense. If you really like the game, you donate money to the game company and defend the game on webboards and give them good reviews. If you hate the game, you declare the game evil on webboards and give the game bad reviews. The money you pay for the service of the Game should be given up, either way (except if there is a 'refund' procedure, so you can receive your money back if you hate it).

I'm just upset about piracy. Hence my rant.

But piracy with the intention of paying for it if you like it does not deprive anyone of material goods, so the analogy fails. It is more like getting a recipe for a Colia VVjagn out of a book you borrowed at a library and after making it and deciding it's disgusting, not buying a recipe book for variations of Colia VVjagn.

[Servant Corps]

Servant Corps, using your analogy, say I've been to Totalslavia and eaten Colia VVjagn a few times, i enter the same resturang and unknowlingly order the same terrible Colia VVjagn. i taste it and refuse to take another bite, complaining how horrible it was and declare i refuse to pay for something that would even scare the garbage can.

And how can you 'accidently' order the Colia VVjagn? It's pretty hard to pronouce. But if you did accidently order the Colia VVjagn, you would have known what it looked like, right, since you have eaten the Colia VVjagn. If you knew what it looked like, you should have walked over to the Waiter and ask them for a refund, and get this simple misunderstanding works out. Or not.

But I doubt that most people who want the Colia VVjagn don't "accidently" order the Colia VVjagn. They purposely order the Colia VVjagn, thereby getting the service of getting the Colia VVjagn specifically prepared by the restraunt. If they don't like it, and if tipping is not really a custom in your nation, then they should go and tell people how bad the restraunt is and refuse to go there ever, EVER again.

They still have to pay for the service though. They have to pay for the service.

But piracy with the intention of paying for it if you like it does not deprive anyone of material goods, so the analogy fails. It is more like getting a recipe for a Colia VVjagn out of a book you borrowed at a library and after making it and deciding it's disgusting, not buying a recipe book for variations of Colia VVjagn.

So, if you want to drop down further, there are many different recipes of Colia VVjagn. This Colia VVjagn is made from a 'secret recipe', a closed-source 'secret recipe'. If you order the Colia VVjagn, they'll make the Colia VVjagn from that 'secret recipe'. After all, the restraunt isn't going to tell you how to make their 'award-winning' (snicker) Colia VVjagn, they don't want to lose money.

So, what you are really doing then would be launching a bugarlization of the restraunt serving Colia VVjagn, copying the recipe of Colia VVjagn from the Restraunt's Cookbook, making the Colia VVjagn yourself, and then having the nerve to complain to the Restraunt that the Colia VVjagn taste bad and why they used such a terrible recipe. Sure, the restraunt isn't "deprived" per se of the recipe of Colia VVjagn, they still got copies...but they have lost money from you, because you haven't paid for the service of getting their tasty Colia VVjagn, since you stole the blueprint needed for making that service and done that same service yourself.

I don't agree with the notion of "why pay for it if you can take it for free?"

But most will not pay. Most will take it for free. It doesn't matter if you agree with it, there's no incentive for a pirate to pay, and why should there be? You can't force people to be 'moral' and follow your ethic system.

If the game company itself has a shareware system where what you describe is done (give out the full game, with no limitations on use, then wait for people to donate), then it is a good idea to download the free game and pay for it if you like it. But if the game company does not use such a shareware system (for various reasons, including the fact that shareware games don't generate reveune and are reliant on the goodwill of people, which may or may not exist) or do not produce a "full" demo of the game itself, then it's up to you to decide if you want to partake in buying from the Game Company. If you want to play the game, you have to pay them money so that you can partake in that game 'service'.

If you disagree with that company's billing policy, and don't want to give money to buy a game that is utterly terrible, then please, Don't Download And Play Their Game At All. They don't subscribe to your viewpoint, and therefore is more likely to produce pretty junk, so it is better to not partake of their profit-orienated services and instead find other freeware or shareware games.

* Servant Corps breathes. This is going to take a while. Ugh.

EDIT: And also..."bad customer service" (or "the fear that I might get bad customer service and that if I pay beforehand, I might subsize this bad customer service") does not count as an legit excuse to shoplift, or as an excuse to rob the restraunt serving the Colia VVjagn.

[Brendan]

So, what you are really doing then would be launching a bugarlization of the restraunt serving Colia VVjagn, copying the recipe of Colia VVjagn from the Restraunt's Cookbook, making the Colia VVjagn yourself, and then having the nerve to complain to the Restraunt that the Colia VVjagn taste bad and why they used such a terrible recipe. Sure, the restraunt isn't "deprived" per se of the recipe of Colia VVjagn, they still got copies...but they have lost money from you, because you haven't paid for the service of getting their tasty Colia VVjagn, since you stole the blueprint needed for making that service and done that same service yourself

But if you download something off the internet, you are not breaking into the company offices and stealing a copy of the game. Even pre-release pirated software is not 'stolen' in this sense; it requires an accomplice within the actual company.

Consider it more like one of the chefs at the restaurant is willing to give you the recipe to Colia VVJagn, and you then spread that recipe on the internet.

[Neonivek]

Chef is a bad example...

I know how to cook steak but that doesn't mean Ill never order it at a restaurant