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[Joseph Miles]

Tone down your* shit a bit, but leave one lever pull for total goblin obliteration as a just in case

*Typoed above, just saw it now.

[KrataLightblade]

I'd say that to make the sieges a little more dangerous without making them just overwhelmingly impossible, rely primarily on overly-elaborate fortifications, and save your traps for actually within your fortress itself.

The "trap-lined corridor of doom" is certainly incredibly effective, but it makes "goblin siege" into "goblin meat grinder".  I like to think when the Army Arc is fully implemented Goblins might actually be abe to attack in numbers and combinatioins powerful enough to overcome a fortress with no military just by sheer number of bodies thrown at your traps.  But then, I also like to think that my dwarves have brain cells.

[wendigo]

I like to think when the Army Arc is fully implemented Goblins might actually be abe to attack in numbers and combinatioins powerful enough to overcome a fortress with no military just by sheer number of bodies thrown at your traps.  But then, I also like to think that my dwarves have brain cells.

Whoah, this entire thread has been confusing the hell out of me.  I haven't had a long-lived fortress since 38c, so maybe this is a recent development, but the phenomenon described above is *exactly* what usually happens to my fortresses.

Generally speaking, the first ten or so sieges go very poorly for the goblins, with your typical 3x8 (or whatever) entryway bottleneck full of traps working well enough for any gobs that get past the marksdwarves... hell, unless they've brought some of their bigger buddies along, simply locking the front doors is usually enough to stop them.  But as the fortress pop/wealth increases, the sieging forces get pretty huge, to the point where drawbridges become very necessary.  After a few of these... well, I've only had *two* fortresses I've hung onto long enough, but I eventually have to seal myself off from the world, and incoming traders/immigrants get slaughtered by the patiently sieging mob. (though I've had some noble/hunter entourages and especially tough human traders punch through, which is pretty cool.. "thanks for saving us, guys!  Now get to work!  Yes sire, we have a room ready for you, don't mind the caged wolves, they're part of the, uhh, decorative ambiance.")

Once the fortress gets sealed off, things go well for a while, but moods and other occasional tragedies create a slow downward spiral into decay and madness... it happens way more slowly than it seemed to back when DF was 2D, but it still happens.

One workaround I'm aware of would be to build a drawbridge based trap (were calling those "atom smashers" now, right?) which would probably work, but that's just a little too cheaty for me. Maybe castle walls with battlements would work too.  That's my plan for the fortress I've just started, and it should be a *fair* solution to the problem, providing that baddies can't smash walls yet.

So to pile a question onto the original OP's, I gotta ask:  has sieging been nerfed in the latest set of releases?  Or have I just done a great job of picking sites near extra vigorous goblin civs?  Because like 20 or so  sieges in, the armies seemed to get terrifically huge.

[LegacyCWAL]

I'd say that to make the sieges a little more dangerous without making them just overwhelmingly impossible, rely primarily on overly-elaborate fortifications, and save your traps for actually within your fortress itself.

I'm actually doing that in my current fortress.  In that fort, the approach to the front door is unobstructed and 5-wide at its narrowest point, with the traps placed only where they'll cage fleeing enemies but not incoming attackers.  The fortifications, on the other hand, are indeed ridiculously elaborate: the front door is at one end of a valley while the only way to get TO that entrance is by going down into the other end of the valley and travelling the full length of it...underneath four fortification-lined bridges, past a few moat- and fortification-protected siege engines, and around a 90-degree turn that a dozen and a half Macedwarves use as cover.

So far, the most successful siege made it to the first bridge and killed a cat

So to pile a question onto the original OP's, I gotta ask:  has sieging been nerfed in the latest set of releases?  Or have I just done a great job of picking sites near extra vigorous goblin civs?  Because like 20 or so  sieges in, the armies seemed to get terrifically huge.

That's definitely good news for me, because I can come up with some ridiculously convoluted defense schemes and I want to see how well they resist a real assault.

[Thendash]

I'm at 50 dwarves (well now only 38  ...) and haven't gotten a siege yet, and I'm not sure if I want one. I just got attacked by 4 ambushes all at once from each corner of the map just before the human caravan came. If sieges are as bad as that then I really don't want one just yet. On the bright side I have a lot more armour and weapons for my military now.

[A_Fey_Dwarf]

I'm at 50 dwarves (well now only 38  ...) and haven't gotten a siege yet, and I'm not sure if I want one. I just got attacked by 4 ambushes all at once from each corner of the map just before the human caravan came. If sieges are as bad as that then I really don't want one just yet. On the bright side I have a lot more armour and weapons for my military now.

Sieges are actually easier to deal with than ambushers. This is because the goblins will announce themselves to you with a big sign when entering as a siege. However ambushers on the other hand will only be announced when they come in contact with your dwarves and by that time it is to late. However in the late game (after about 15 years), sieges will grow to 100+ goblins in size often riding beak dogs and accompained by trolls. By this stage in the game your army will hopefully be of equal stature. Half a dozen champions will kill an army of any size.

[Tormy]

It's true that holding back will make things harder, but if you lose, you know that you holding back was probably a big factor in it.  Stacking the odds against yourself is one thing, but deciding simply to let the enemy win is another.

Well yes, but the AI needs some handicap, or else, the sieges are pretty much useless and pointless.
Also, try to mod your game, like my megabeasts are all size 50 for example, and my goblins are also much more hardcore than the vanilla goblins.
Now if I dont drop some traps here and there, they would eat my military, including my champions. Its much more fun compared to vanilla sieges.

[worldspawn]

I just lock my steel door and wait them out/bait them into trapped corridors. Except the one human siege that was like 30 horsemen that I wanted to enter my trapped corridor but they instead piled outside the door and waited.

I had the door unlocked, but didn't have it set to pet passable so the horses they were riding I guess couldn't get in.

[ShadeJS]

Maybe castle walls with battlements would work too.  That's my plan for the fortress I've just started, and it should be a *fair* solution to the problem, providing that baddies can't smash walls yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey

Basically an outer wall with a keep works quite well. I usually aim for 2 or 3 z levels high, 2 or 3 deep, with a wall of fortifications. Oh, and a Water / Magma moat or pit that is 2 or 3 tiles wide, and one or two deep. (This is by year 5+ or so.)

I start modestly and and build with future expansion in mind. I usually end up with a near wall first, then an outer wall and beef up the near wall, then beef up the outer wall and build a keep.

Later on I usually build 4 - 6 murder towers surrounding my outer wall with killzones in the middle.

Endgame, I form my army up outside behind the wall, and in the base of a murder tower, and bash nearby squads in a crossfire. Once I think I'm safe, I drop the drawbridge and let my Melee dwarves at them.

Sometimes I'll even drop the bridge and let them in.

This is without cage traps, catapults, or ballista... I'll bust any siege in a season when I'm set up.

[Paulus Fahlstrom]

Look at it this way, sieges are fun for you and your dwarves.

My last one involved eighty goblins. My fortress has a population of 171 and I'm only in my seventh year. Of course, I started in the middle of a goblin fortress, so that may have had something to do with early sieges. I've been having them since year 2.

And I agree, traps are overpowered. I keep two strings of traps. Mostly to kill babysnatchers and goblin thieves, and to have some prisoners for when sieges are over.

And oh yeah. My fortifications aren't designed to keep goblins out. They're designed to keep them in. That siege of eighty goblins? Trapped as soon as they passed my doors. Good training practice. I only used two squads of actual soldiers, and one of my squad leaders got sixteen kills. I do take injuries, and occasional deaths, but I say if the goblins are willing to fight hand to hand I'll oblige them. If they bring crossbows, so do I.

I can't wait for beak dogs and trolls. Heh.

[LegacyCWAL]

Yeah, if your defenses get too powerful, the goblins are liable to break and run before you can kill half of them.  I usually wind up putting just as much effort into killing the fleeing ones as I do into keeping them out in the first place.