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[Strongpoint]

It is also terrible to see Hezbollah continueing it's violence and war criminal activities using Lebanon as a base of operations.

Hezbollah shows how useless (or anti-Israel - your choice) the UN is. There is a Security Council resolution that no Hezbollah troops should be close to Israel. There were UN troops that were tasked with preventing that. And they did absolutely nothing. If the UN was doing its job, the current bombings of Lebanon wouldn't happen.

Also, Israel was beyond patient

Imagine some armed group would launch missiles and drones at the USA from Mexico. And Mexican government did no shit( mostly because its army is weaker and they are occupied). Would the US wait A YEAR before decisive action? Would China? Would... Sweden? Would Nigeria? Would any country with any military ability? Would the leader of this country be called a warmonger for answering such a blatant act of war?

[wobbly]

Imagine Mexico and the USA have history to the extent that Texas was once part of Mexico. Or that Alaska is part of Russia.

[Doomblade187]

It is also terrible to see Hezbollah continueing it's violence and war criminal activities using Lebanon as a base of operations.

Hezbollah shows how useless (or anti-Israel - your choice) the UN is. There is a Security Council resolution that no Hezbollah troops should be close to Israel. There were UN troops that were tasked with preventing that. And they did absolutely nothing. If the UN was doing its job, the current bombings of Lebanon wouldn't happen.

Also, Israel was beyond patient

Imagine some armed group would launch missiles and drones at the USA from Mexico. And Mexican government did no shit( mostly because its army is weaker and they are occupied). Would the US wait A YEAR before decisive action? Would China? Would... Sweden? Would Nigeria? Would any country with any military ability? Would the leader of this country be called a warmonger for answering such a blatant act of war?

Israel has been doing low level retaliation this entire time. They haven't been silent.

[martinuzz]

Hezbollah shows how useless (or anti-Israel - your choice) the UN is. There is a Security Council resolution that no Hezbollah troops should be close to Israel. There were UN troops that were tasked with preventing that. And they did absolutely nothing. If the UN was doing its job, the current bombings of Lebanon wouldn't happen.

Also, Israel was beyond patient

I fully agree with you on this one. The UN mission there has shown to be beyond useless in stopping Hezbollah terrorist missile attacks for years now and should just disband.

[Doomblade187]

Hezbollah shows how useless (or anti-Israel - your choice) the UN is. There is a Security Council resolution that no Hezbollah troops should be close to Israel. There were UN troops that were tasked with preventing that. And they did absolutely nothing. If the UN was doing its job, the current bombings of Lebanon wouldn't happen.

Also, Israel was beyond patient

I fully agree with you on this one. The UN mission there has shown to be beyond useless in stopping Hezbollah terrorist missile attacks for years now and should just disband.

funny story, the IDF is trying to push out/suppress the UNFIL mission.
https://unifil.unmissions.org/unifil-statement-13-october-2024
https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/unifil-statement-11-october-2024
https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/unifil-statement-20-october-2024

[martinuzz]

Hezbollah have been shitting on the UNFIL mission for much much longer now, and are now hiding behind them.
Note that protecting a terrorist organisation is not part of UNFIL's mission.

[Doomblade187]

Hezbollah have been shitting on the UNFIL mission for much much longer now, and are now hiding behind them.
Note that protecting a terrorist organisation is not part of UNFIL's mission.

That's not hiding behind them, that's shooting at watchtowers and bulldozing base walls. They have lines to coordinate danger close stuff, there's no need to drive a damn tank through the gate.

[Strongpoint]

Israel has been doing low level retaliation this entire time. They haven't been silent.

This is why I said decisive action, not some kind of minor response. Would the US limit itself to sporadic minor strikes in the aforementioned hypothetical scenario of being shelled from Mexico and forced to evacuate (proportional to population) hundreds of thousands of its citizens?



With the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, we see how biases work. Previous actions or reputation should not be a factor in evaluating of the current action. If a convicted murderer kills in self-defense it is still self-defense.

If Islamists will take power in some Central Asian country and start shelling Russia and Russia invades, I won't call this invasion illegal or unprovoked, and that Russia responded only because Putin likes war. (even if I'll grab popcorn, enjoy the action and root for Islamists to hold as long as possible)

[wobbly]

Israel has been doing low level retaliation this entire time. They haven't been silent.

This is why I said decisive action, not some kind of minor response. Would the US limit itself to sporadic minor strikes in the aforementioned hypothetical scenario of being shelled from Mexico and forced to evacuate (proportional to population) hundreds of thousands of its citizens?



With the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, we see how biases work. Previous actions or reputation should not be a factor in evaluating of the current action. If a convicted murderer kills in self-defense it is still self-defense.

If Islamists will take power in some Central Asian country and start shelling Russia and Russia invades, I won't call this invasion illegal or unprovoked, and that Russia responded only because Putin likes war. (even if I'll grab popcorn, enjoy the action and root for Islamists to hold as long as possible)

This I suspect is where I disagree. Israel isn't holding back, Israel is going all out.It isn't working. I'm not disagreeing for ideological reasons, though they do exist. I'm suggesting Israel is going all out, .... and it's not actually working?

[Strongpoint]

This I suspect is where I disagree. Israel isn't holding back, Israel is going all out.It isn't working. I'm not disagreeing for ideological reasons, though they do exist. I'm suggesting Israel is going all out, .... and it's not actually working?

They didn't even strike Iran once. They did almost nothing against Lebanon for a year and even now it is a minor invasion with quite careful airstrikes. They don't send their Navy and Airforce to Yemen to rain death and deblockade shipping. Of course, they are holding back their military might. Israel is very far from being mobilized and in true war mode.

All out from Israel will be... loud and bright and veeery bloody.

[Doomblade187]

yes the "very careful" airstrikes that destroy lebanese government buildings.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/israeli-strike-rocks-beirut-suburbs-044418689.html

this is actually from last week i think so not new!

[Strongpoint]

yes the "very careful" airstrikes that destroy lebanese government buildings.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/israeli-strike-rocks-beirut-suburbs-044418689.html

this is actually from last week i think so not new!

First, yes it is a very careful limited precise strike targeting a politically important Hezbollah member and destroying their C&C center. Good job!

Second, I was talking about the earlier period, before the pagers explosions. Israel did almost nothing for a year, now there is a war and Hezbollah is getting destroyed, suffering defeat after defeat. I am a bit disappointed that Lebanese do not join and don't seize the opportunity to kick those out of the country but... world isn't perfect.


BTW, Israel has the ability to destroy ALL government buildings in Lebanon in a matter of days.

[StrawBarrel]

Israeli forces blow up mosque in southern Lebanon | Israel attacks Lebanon | Al Jazeera
7 Oct 2024

Israeli forces have blown up a mosque in the southern Lebanese village of Yaroun as Israel intensifies its attacks in the area.

edit october 23, 2024

Hezbollah shows how useless (or anti-Israel - your choice) the UN is. There is a Security Council resolution that no Hezbollah troops should be close to Israel. There were UN troops that were tasked with preventing that. And they did absolutely nothing. If the UN was doing its job, the current bombings of Lebanon wouldn't happen.

Also, Israel was beyond patient

I fully agree with you on this one. The UN mission there has shown to be beyond useless in stopping Hezbollah terrorist missile attacks for years now and should just disband.

funny story, the IDF is trying to push out/suppress the UNFIL mission.
https://unifil.unmissions.org/unifil-statement-13-october-2024
https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/unifil-statement-11-october-2024
https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/unifil-statement-20-october-2024

Thank you for posting these United Nations Interim Force In Lebanon statements. I didn’t know how severe and unlawful the IDF attacks on the UN were until now.

October 11

This morning, UNIFIL’s Naqoura headquarters was affected by explosions for the second time in the last 48 hours. Two peacekeepers were injured after two explosions occurred close to an observation tower. One injured peacekeeper was taken to a hospital in Tyre, while the second is being treated in Naqoura.

On October 11, the IDF again attacked the base at Naqoura. Two Sri Lankan peacekeepers were wounded, one seriously, and the perimeter wall was damaged by an IDF bulldozer.

October 13

At around 6:40 a.m., peacekeepers at the same position reported the firing of several rounds 100 metres north, which emitted smoke. Despite putting on protective masks, fifteen peacekeepers suffered effects, including skin irritation and gastrointestinal reactions, after the smoke entered the camp. The peacekeepers are receiving treatment.

In addition, yesterday, IDF soldiers stopped a critical UNIFIL logistical movement near Meiss ej Jebel, denying it passage. The critical movement could not be completed.

According to a confidential report prepared by the government of one of UNIFIL's contributing countries that was reviewed by the Financial Times, the Merkava tanks had remained in the base for 45 minutes after UNIFIL objections, but within an hour of their departure, multiple white phosphorus munitions were fired within 100 metres of the base, injuring 15 peacekeepers.

October 20

Earlier today, an IDF bulldozer deliberately demolished an observation tower and perimeter fence of a UN position in Marwahin.

Yet again, we remind the IDF and all actors of their obligations to ensure the safety and security of UN personnel and property and to respect the inviolability of UN premises at all times. Yet again, we note that breaching a UN position and damaging UN assets is a flagrant violation of international law and Security Council resolution 1701. It also endangers the safety and security of our peacekeepers in violation of international humanitarian law.

On 20 October, the IDF attacked a UNIFIL base in Marwahin, demolishing an observation tower and perimeter fence with an army bulldozer.

Yeah it really does seem like the IDF is acting really cringe and unhinged in Lebanon.

[wobbly]

This I suspect is where I disagree. Israel isn't holding back, Israel is going all out.It isn't working. I'm not disagreeing for ideological reasons, though they do exist. I'm suggesting Israel is going all out, .... and it's not actually working?

They didn't even strike Iran once.

Not surprising. Iran is a bigger military force than Israel, not necessarily stronger but definitely bigger.

They did almost nothing against Lebanon for a year and even now it is a minor invasion with quite careful airstrikes. They don't send their Navy and Airforce to Yemen to rain death and deblockade shipping. Of course, they are holding back their military might. Israel is very far from being mobilized and in true war mode.

Not surprising. Last time Israel fought with Lebanon a lot of Israelis died. Israel's government has chosen a path that achieves nothing, outside of other countries/regions taking the casualties.

All they are doing is making sure the people doing the dying aren't from Israel. While achieving nothing real.

What part of this region, has become less full of terroists that hate Israel?
What has been done to harm any state actor who wants to support terroists in the region?
What has actually been achieved, if you aren't an Israeli politician trying to hold on to your job?

[Strongpoint]

What part of this region, has become less full of terroists that hate Israel?
What has been done to harm any state actor who wants to support terroists in the region?
What has actually been achieved, if you aren't an Israeli politician trying to hold on to your job?

In what time period?

If since October 7th, 2023. Then Israeli achievements are:

- A lot of Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists* are very dead. And no, Israeli actions didn't cause more terrorists. Not now, not in a decade, not in two. Because indoctrination in the local version of Islam means "kill all Jews" anyway.
- Israel physically destroyed terrorist force multipliers - their bases, stockpiles, tunnels, other resources and infrastructure. 1000 poorly equipped terrorists are less dangerous than 100 with good equipment.
- Israel is forming no-man military zones in Gaza and will likely do the same in Southern Lebanon. Again, the military benefits of this are oblivious. Strikes against Israel will be less effective
- State actors lost resources they supplied to Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran demonstrated that their air\ballistic strike capability is very limited against modern countries hurting its reputation. Israel also physically eliminated some important Iranians. But yeah, so far, Israel has done little to harm Iran. It may change soon.
- What has been achieved? The military capability of Hamas and Hezbollah are severely reduced.


* I am not a big fan of calling Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. While they do engage in terror. They are were organized, well-equipped and well-trained armies.