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[NJW2000]

Vote Count

Imp:
MaximumSpin:
FallacyofUrist:
CrystallizedMire: MaximumSpin, TricMagic
TricMagic: CrystalizedMire, VermillionSkies
VermillionSkies:
Juicebox:
No Elimination:
Yes:

Not Voting:  Imp, FallacyofUrist, Juicebox


Day 1 will end in approximately 14 hours, at 13:00 GMT Wednesday 25/09/2024

[Imp]

CrystalizedMire, willing to discuss what your loss condition(s) is/are?

[Crystalizedmire]

CrystalizedMire, willing to discuss what your loss condition(s) is/are?

I lose when all living players are undead.
I win when all living players aren't undead.

[Imp]

CrystalizedMire, willing to discuss what your loss condition(s) is/are?

I lose when all living players are undead.
I win when all living players aren't undead.

Thanks, CM.  I hope we can solve this in a way that everyone wins.


Are you willing to discuss if you are immune to becoming undead and/or immune to being alignment converted?

[TricMagic]

Imp, if you don't commit to voting someone out in the next 3 hours I'm leaving my vote on you. As I won't be awake to change it I expect you will be unable to do anything else. Or so I'd threaten if I didn't care about my win condition. I should have just targeted you last night since you are clearly incapable of voting anyone out.

CrystalizedMire, willing to discuss what your loss condition(s) is/are?

I win when all living players are undead.
I lose when all living players aren't undead.

[Imp]

Imp, if you don't commit to voting someone out in the next 3 hours I'm leaving my vote on you. As I won't be awake to change it I expect you will be unable to do anything else. Or so I'd threaten if I didn't care about my win condition. I should have just targeted you last night since you are clearly incapable of voting anyone out.

Tric, you're clueless.  Aggressive, but not quite as tactical as some.

Hrm, fun stuff.  I'ma treat all claims as true for this analysis.

I definitely support No elim or a tie today (same thing).

I'd prefer to delay voting win presuming it causes a win, to avoid the cascade I predict it causes.

If we elim CM D1 but this does not itself cause CM to instalose, then I predict:

Tric stays in play because at least 1 person who can res dead players is still alive and able to do so (if CM has some mechanic preventing res or preventing it through the methods available, I'm wrong because I don't know everything and Tric loses D1, cascade.)

Verm stays in play if Tric can stay in play, because Verm can act on dead CM (even if she lost - but Tric loses D1 if CM loses D1 and that means Verm loses D1)

My wincon says 'to be determined' and doesn't really care.  I stay in play unless everyone else is gone or everyone left has monster status.

FoU should have all the same potential opportunities to gain his (FoU is a him, yeah?  I always struggle to remember that) modifiers if CM can indeed be ressed somehow; but if CM loses on death or cannot be ressed by any potential ressurrection method then maybe everything collapses at once, because there's a chance that between CM+Verm+Tric suddenly out D1 then FoU maybe cannot possibly get those mods, if so he probably loses on the spot.

Max has whatever easy/hard wincon, I dunno what to expect there.

Juicebox hasn't told us anything.

CM, FoU and Juicebox decided that it was best to lock Verm down N0.  Therefore, Verm had no chance to act on anyone per the rules we know.

The fact that Verm probably hasn't had a chance to act on CM if Verm decided to try is really my main 'concern' with the idea of trying to help CM win and get out of play.

If we could elim CM and help CM win, then Verm can eat her whenever; that would be nice but we're kinda out of time for that because it's likely that Tric becomes undead (with or without a new wincon) N1; we are likely to have an increasing number of undead and that just gets too complex.

Alternatively, if everyone has a way to win that doesn't involve CM becoming undead, that's an option.

I don't know that there's a wincon that says fill the game with undead.

If I monster status CM in a way that doesn't turn her undead (so my wincon can be met), and we can meet the wincon of everyone who gains undead status so they leave play by winning - that leaves CM, not undead, and all undead out play however we make that work - then CM wins after.

I have no idea if it's feasible; if it's not, undead shouldn't reveal their wincon, I guess.  I don't currently know who the undead is, I know it's not me and I'm shocked if Tric's currently vampire (not shocked if he was always undead).  The other 5 of you I think 'could be; for sure one is'.

But, this is my tribute song to my character, since there's so much disagreement!  Gosh, I love my character.

[Crystalizedmire]

CrystalizedMire, willing to discuss what your loss condition(s) is/are?

I lose when all living players are undead.
I win when all living players aren't undead.

Thanks, CM.  I hope we can solve this in a way that everyone wins.


Are you willing to discuss if you are immune to becoming undead and/or immune to being alignment converted?

Immune to having my alignment converted so no matter what I'm stuck with this wincon.

[TricMagic]

Imp. At this point I literally do not have a choice but to vote you. It's impossible for me to elim anyone else today if you don't cooperate, and if the day passes I become a vampire and have my current wincon changed. My wincon needs me to kill whoever bit me yesterday. Per the rules, you can't play differently just cause you know you're going to be converted.

Trying to win everyone's wincon is not conductive when we're guaranteed that someone is going to be the loser in that arrangement.

[TricMagic]

I apparently lost as soon as Vermillion got voted out on Day 0 huh. Can't target them to cross them off the list, forcing me to pick Crystal as they would likely lynch them tomorrow and lose me the game. Come the next day I'm about to lose my wincon and my own action has limited my vote completely.

Eh. I never trusted you anyway. Wanting everyone to win, isn't that just naive? Someone has to be left behind.

[VermilionSkies]

Taken from the intro post, Tric:
This cannot be enforced, but all players are asked in the strongest terms at all times to play to win. If you believe there are alignment changing mechanics in the game, this does not necessarily mean playing to your win condition.

Anyways, voting No Elim is my best odds of not having anyone lose today.
Hopefully Tric gets win-con converted, so they aren't at risk of exploding overnight.

[Imp]

CrystalizedMire, willing to discuss what your loss condition(s) is/are?

I lose when all living players are undead.
I win when all living players aren't undead.

Thanks, CM.  I hope we can solve this in a way that everyone wins.


Are you willing to discuss if you are immune to becoming undead and/or immune to being alignment converted?

Immune to having my alignment converted so no matter what I'm stuck with this wincon.

Great.

The only piece left is if the 'undead cult wincon' allows the undead to win before they convert everyone. If they can leave one player not undead and still win, that should be CrystalizedMire who gains monster status from me and is otherwise left alone.  Undead poofs by win, CM is left alone, poofs into a win, good game all if only that's possible.  I need CM to have monster status because what if the cult poofs before converting me?  They might need only 3 or I dunno what.

CM, as I didn't give you a candy, I can't offer you monster status without undead status that way.

However, if you can get wounded, I can fix that wound without giving you undead status, and with giving you monster status.

If you can wound yourself, I recommend it.

If Verm's honest, he can nibble you without giving undead status.  But N1 Verm probably needs to nibble Max because D2 we probably say 'yes' to Max and maybe Max goes away D2.

I guess we could delay your wound until Verm's ready for you, but if Verm gets converted then he's gonna probably change you with a nibble?  I'm guessing I have no idea how that might play out.

But if you can self-wound N1, I can do whatever I can to preserve my life for D2/N2.  Then I can tend your wound N2 and monster status you, while everyone else chases their wincons.

I think that's a good way to go, better than a CM elim D1.  See, I can bring you back, and that monster status you, but it also undead status you.  No idea if anyone else can bring you back.

I don't have to bring you back (I presume that I 'could' is enough to save Tric until I can't - if his wincon changes then he is safe if his new wincon's safe) for my own wincon.  But if there's no time when only non-undead folks are alive, you lose.  You might be the needed not undead person, if a true mass win's possible (I have no info on if it is or not; I prefer vast mass wins if possible).

So, how's self wounding sound?

You have 1+ people capable of trying to ensure you cannot take any action even if you're left alive; if you're open to a self-wound and say so, they might let you try that.  If you blow it by trying to kill someone else, you may not get a second chance, and you may not have a better chance to win than this (It doesn't seem like you've convinced a majority to elim someone who could be the person you need dead to win; there might even be 2+ undead already in play.  I have no idea).

[juicebox]

Wow so a lot has happened since I last posted, and quite a bit is happening now. Gonna try to get caught up again.

[Imp]

Imp. At this point I literally do not have a choice but to vote you. It's impossible for me to elim anyone else today if you don't cooperate, and if the day passes I become a vampire and have my current wincon changed. My wincon needs me to kill whoever bit me yesterday. Per the rules, you can't play differently just cause you know you're going to be converted.

Trying to win everyone's wincon is not conductive when we're guaranteed that someone is going to be the loser in that arrangement.

Cool.  Kill whoever bit you yesterday.  It wasn't me.  If you decide you need me dead, do what you do.

I don't know who bit you or even if they're a vampire.  I just know [vampire] can bite and how that mechanic works; nothing rules out a vamp bite on you.

Lucky me, grats on my alignment request + how the mod decided to interpret it, I have yet again a role that does not require me to lie; my withheld truths are extremely few as well.

Thanks to your forcing CM to vote you; I think we can get up to 3 votes on Tric easily enough if needed to try and tie the vote.  I have to wake up around end of day, so I could try to persuade folks to try to tie a vote if needed, and trust me to just watch and ensure it stays tied (I do the unvote/revote/unvote/revote dance if needed.  That breaks down if the day ends late, I do have to go to work at some point and I can't stay glued to my device a bit after day's supposed to end.

But I'm perfectly happy with no elim based on everything I currently know and suspect.

[Imp]

Whoops, I forgot I decided to watch before I voted, thought I was already this.  No Elimination.

[juicebox]

Can we just get a rundown of everyone's win conditions and special limitations? At this point I think it's stupid to be hiding it, even though not everyone can win together.

In particular, I want to clarify differences — for example, it seems Tric needs to act or be acted upon by anyone, but Vermin specifically needs to act on everyone?

I need to heal/protect three people in order to win. Last night I protected CM, to stop the vampire from targeting them.