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[4maskwolf]

4mask please give a full readsdrop down from scum to town
explaination not necessary, the ranking is most important

4mask is at work, and will be providing a final reads list as the last thing he does before dying.

[hector13]

Me: why hasn’t EP posted an update in the thread to let everyone know I’m replacing in?

Also me, after a two hour conversation with my brother: you haven’t posted in the thread so you’re not going to get notification in your “show replies to your posts”, dumbass.

Whoops.

So… I’m lazy, and don’t feel like analyzing 40 pages of posts in between doing things I actually need to do over the next few hours, so… can someone give me a rundown of night actions and claims so far?

I have been keeping up with the thread a little, so I’ve got vibe check reads on most of the main players so far I guess.

I think Imp has inspected 4mask and VermillionSkies, and got respective scum and town results.

One thing that is a minor bother regarding this is Imp’s behaviour, as I tend to expect quite a lot of paranoia from them as part of their game. I’ve seen Imp be concerned about a cult leader and arsonist, but for some reason them not being utterly paranoid over a scum result feels.. wrong somehow. It might be nothing, but it’s a concern so I wanted to bring it up.

In terms of Max and FoU, I’m afraid I side with FoU on that, but caveat that heavily since I always want FoU to be on my team. I know Max really wants to be a cult leader in a mafia game here, and I think EP knows that? Regardless, there was nothing stopping Max also requesting that be a consideration for the game, and Max apparently being responsible for the whole double night thing might fit with the scum team being a recruit-capped cult. The lack of night kills so far also has made me more anxious about that.

Magma I thought was pretty scummy D1 with the whole guessing game nonsense, and I don’t think I’ve seen anything that’s made me change my mind in that. I do have some concerns about this read and how it interacts with my Max/FoU read though, I guess I should look into this.

4mask has been inspected scum, and made a claim that he’s a Miller. Textbook stuff really. The best choice for the vote unless something bizarre happens.

[VermilionSkies]

The lack of nightkills is because I ate all of them.

[Imp]

Alright.  I have 12 posts left for today after this, and there's about 5 hours left in D3, I ready-ish if we CFD (though I think flash mob's a more ideal term these days).

I also apparently need to unwind from work and feel good again, because wow, I am agressive-feeling.

but for some reason [imp] not being utterly paranoid over a scum result feels.. wrong somehow. It might be nothing, but it’s a concern so I wanted to bring it up.

Having evidence that a NK redirecting, NK eating player has targeted me 2 nights in a row, whom I inspected and got good on, as well as extra info on, helps reduce my 'paranoia' of NK considerably.  I'm also aware of an arsonist lining folks up in a row then whoosh, or a multi-target role wiper able to just take out everyone who ever said no at once, can do vast harm and if I have any defenses against that stuff I'm not saying at this time.

You caught various things.  Didn't catch those details I guess, instead of 'this is a good way to sway what Hector says in Hector's eyes', surely.

What's your role doing?  What do you surmise about why I and Juicebox were targeted for the joke?

Do you choose to explain why I should be happy towny people are targeted for jokes, and not be thinking arsonist about it?  Or whatever your actual take on it is.


Oliverz, you can help deal with that forgetting responses to posts by making them as you read, saving them to post in a group.  Kinda looks like you do that already, so unsure.

2. Any thoughts of lynches outside of
4maskwolf
feel like scumclaims to me.

Guess you think I'm scumclaiming then, because I sure do think about elims that are not 4maskwolf.

I don't know enough to say don't elim 4mask wolf, but I sure expect that Vermilion is what he claims.  So there's probably 1+ ways for 1+ evil teams to resolve him, be that arson, rolewipe, stuff even stranger or just more brutal.


Even if Verm's a godfather, town has the elim.  We don't need intricate townie ways to elim a bulletproof evil like evil usually needs some mech method to elim a bulletproof townie, especially in a game where there's a risk the bulletproof gets inspected.  And we seem to have a rolewiper, and I suspect Hector's predecesor of being an arsonist.  Between the two of those roles, as of D3 Hector's got a potential douse on Imp and Juicebox; Mater's got a potential rolewipe on Oscar and Max.  If those 4 targets all happen to be town and also take those falls, at least Oscar and Max have votes still (I hope, voting's potentially a base ability of sorts too

I also note that people wanting me to not inspect them get no defensive value out of a still-living 4maskwolf.  The odds of me reinspecting 4mask are extremely low, so any other suspects have more value as possible barricades than the elim today.

It's probably too early for me to plan for my possible soon demise since we expect to go from D3 straight to D4.

I'm still going to discuss, because what if (Like a bleeping ignite that maybe triggers 'EoD' instead of during night or whatever).  I think I suck at noticing real partnerships, but you guys who are much better at it can likely dig through my ideas for anything that you think's worth checking on, if any, in case I mention something not already considered by the pros-at-this-side.

Restating: 
IF CM is evil, the odds are high that Wolfkey is also evil and partnered.  I think this because Wolfkey started D3 trying to figure out who claimed what inspects, then stated a perfect pattern to cover for CM's claims; if we find out CM is evil consider if it makes sense to flip Wolfkey for that.

IF Wolfkey is evil, think carefully.  Wolfkey may have been trying to protect someone ELSE from inspects, I finally revealed I inspected a not-their partner, then maybe partner+Wolfkey decided I was too sus of Wolfkey, better make CM look sus to help hide the partner and confuse.  Could be CM connection still, but I'm not surprised if Wolfkey intended to protect someone ELSE then flipped to look like protecting CM to hide real partner and maybe slip past looking sus.

IF we elim Mater D3, we likely 'free' both Oliverz and Max from a type of trap.  I currently weakly lean town on both Max and Mater, and am going 'wtf explain more' towards Oliverz.  I'm concerned how Mater may be used by evil even if good (or different evil) in the coming cycles, hope Mater plays really careful.

Mater is maybe distanced from AP?  I kinda think Mater would choose not to allow that to be noticable if actually partnered evil with AP.

We seem to have a hefty load of power among town and possible town.  We could have massive icebergs of power under the surface, maybe titanic battles between warring anti-town factions; we know of 2 eaten NK, but maybe there were more that didn't get discussed; some anti-town defender may not think it helps them to mention they did or might have stopped 1+ kills too or whatever.

Whatever evil's got, it should be a balance to what good's got; and good's got some nice stuff so.... yeah I am not that reassured that this game isn't very hard.

But I can use what everyone says, at least, to help try to guide my next actions.

[hector13]

Alright.  I have 12 posts left for today after this, and there's about 5 hours left in D3, I ready-ish if we CFD (though I think flash mob's a more ideal term these days).

I also apparently need to unwind from work and feel good again, because wow, I am agressive-feeling.

but for some reason [imp] not being utterly paranoid over a scum result feels.. wrong somehow. It might be nothing, but it’s a concern so I wanted to bring it up.

Having evidence that a NK redirecting, NK eating player has targeted me 2 nights in a row, whom I inspected and got good on, as well as extra info on, helps reduce my 'paranoia' of NK considerably.  I'm also aware of an arsonist lining folks up in a row then whoosh, or a multi-target role wiper able to just take out everyone who ever said no at once, can do vast harm and if I have any defenses against that stuff I'm not saying at this time.

You caught various things.  Didn't catch those details I guess, instead of 'this is a good way to sway what Hector says in Hector's eyes', surely.

To be frank, I don’t read your posts if I don’t have to. The stream of consciousness deal can be difficult to parse, particularly with the volume of words.

What's your role doing?  What do you surmise about why I and Juicebox were targeted for the joke?

Do you choose to explain why I should be happy towny people are targeted for jokes, and not be thinking arsonist about it?  Or whatever your actual take on it is.

I can’t explain to you how you should be feeling about anything.

Have you never seen Monsters Inc? You’re missing out if not!

I need power for my stronger abilities. I get that via telling jokes. I get the concern about an arsonist, that’s what I was thinking before replacing in. It makes sense now I occupy the role, and I’m disappointed AP wasn’t throwing out WIFOM when he said he was Mike Wazowski.


Note, not read the rest of your post yet, got stuff to do.

[FallacyofUrist]

Unfortunately, since Tric and Spin are voting for him, 4maskwolf is probably town. If I had a vote to save his life I'd take it, but currently all that would accomplish would be tying the vote.


Additional Spin Scumtell Notes:

How exactly has Spin reacted to my pursuit of him?

Sorry,  4mask, the truth is, I even want to seriously consider that you were wrongly accused, but I am just too burned out by Fallacy's squawking. If it's a strategy to try to get me to stop paying attention to the game so I don't clock scum, it's a good one, except for the part where I'm going to vote him next and never bother to move it. Almost certainly not moving before EOD today either unless something serious comes up.

This is garbage. I'd consider it valid, except Spin has never actually engaged with my talking points. Max is using my pursuit of him as an excuse to keep a non-behaviorally motivated vote on 4maskwolf. You won't see Spin looking at 4mask's posts and behavior to increase or decrease his justification of the vote. Spin just wants a player that isn't him or Tric dead.

Other interactions dodge mentioning the points of the case itself, which is basically summarized as 'Spin isn't actually trying to find scum in the Day, he's just hiding behind role shenanigans to excuse himself'.

[1] Did you ever say that you thought those two were a scumteam, back during day 1?

[2] Garbage. If you think someone is scum, then you should be doing everything in your power to get them executed. Build a case post! Map out 4mask's relationships!

Spin, your scum play is ass this game, and the only reason it's working is everyone's too distracted by role minutiae to look at the obvious thing right in front of their faces.

Fallacy, I really don't think anyone's going to fall for it no matter how hard you double down. Just move on.

Doesn't address my points, just labels my case as a scum attempt to get him executed.

Every instinct I have is telling me the same thing it was telling me d1: Magma and Fallacy are a scumteam.

If Magma proves to be anti-town I propose we move directly to Fallacy.

You're kidding.

4mask was my next top scumread because I felt like he and Magma were teamed d1, so, that's good to know. I am 100% down with voting 4maskwolf here.

Now, I've been clear about my suspicions, and the decision is now in the rest of your hands, so I'm not going to push anymore for now.

The combination of these posts indicates Spin is saying that he felt like me, Magma, and 4mask were the scumteam Day 1.

He never once brought it up then, though. Does he look at our posts and votes to see how we interact with each other? No. Does he look at our night claims to see how they might cover for each other? No.

Not now, and not then.

Spin is voting meaninglessly. He was very quick to switch votes the moment he got an excuse to, too.


Maybe I'm getting flashbacks to that game where Max and Jim were scum and I was town and Jim dodged all my attacks by just ignoring them or deflecting with minimal effort.

It is supremely frustrating.

Maximum Spin.

[Maximum Spin]

Unfortunately, since Tric and Spin are voting for him, 4maskwolf is probably town. If I had a vote to save his life I'd take it, but currently all that would accomplish would be tying the vote.

Would you exchange yourself for 4maskwolf? I would definitely switch and I bet we could get others to agree.

[Maximum Spin]

Fallacy, let me put it this way.
If you're not scum, and actually redchecked 4maskwolf isn't scum, then convince yourself for now that I'm also not scum, who do you think is scum? Do you think Tric is for any reason besides him supporting me? If you have a reason, I'd consider it for sure - I don't think Tric is cleared, in fact, after thinking it over I think Tric is one of the only people who would give me [thing] as scum. But I've seen no reason at all to think that.
You seem to think juicebox is scum too, and I never understood why, but as I'm perfectly null on him atm I would be entirely willing to consider it.

Why don't you at least try to be convincing?

[FallacyofUrist]

Why don't you at least try to be convincing?

No. You're scum.

Would you exchange yourself for 4maskwolf? I would definitely switch and I bet we could get others to agree.

The only player I know is 100% town is myself. I'd consider it, but it's not clear if his role is valuable enough for that to be a worthy trade.

[juicebox]

At this point the only person I think we should even consider lynchng instead of 4mask is Oliverz, but I really think 4mask should be the lynch today.

[FallacyofUrist]

At this point the only person I think we should even consider lynchng instead of 4mask is Oliverz, but I really think 4mask should be the lynch today.

Yes, because your scumbuddy Spin is voting for him.

[Imp]

I'm kinda surprised FoU hasn't made any sort of case yet for me to please investigate Max if we don't elim him today, which currently doesn't seem our most likely elim.

FoU, why not?

Not to mention you'd need to ignore Imp's result on 4mask for that conclusion..

You're ignoring Max's ridiculously scummy behavior. The presence of inspection abilities doesn't excuse us from having to investigate scummy behavior.

It's like Magma and I are the only ones to care about that.

This caring really doesn't seem to include 'investigate him if you don't kill him, egads!'.  Even, this just gets ignored by FoU.  Heck, Max's response to it gets ignored by FoU too.

Imagine a world where we see Max flip, and Max was town.  Dang.  Okay, so... unless you're some wincon that just needs to see Max flip, you gotta do something else, and if you're town, that's a downer to see a Max townflip (trust me on that.  Max is useful if he's not anti-your-wincon.  I want ally-Max alive, he increases the odds my side wins; it's only enemy-Max I want dead or even depowered.  I don't know what he is this game, but if he's my enemy, where's the pile of bodies or converts or doused folks or whatever, that he's connected to?)

And this, FoU.

I'm a cop, Tric. The 'needing people to die' thing is a balancing factor to being able to confirm people's alignments.

Why'd you even say this?  Typically cops don't need someone to die in order to confirm an alignment.

[TricMagic]

You do have the perfect oppurtunity to fall on your sword Fal. Max then dies tommorow like you seem to want. But you're not willing to put your life on the line. As some anime person once said, the only people who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed.

You are willing to tie the vote though. Question, was Max supposed to stay on Magma with just their play giving them away, or vote the outed miller/scum? Miller claims aren't defenses, they're get out of jail cards. Let alone such a convoluted one. It only exists if there are death frames, which are a bastard role.

[FallacyofUrist]

You are willing to tie the vote though.

I explicitly said I wasn't willing to tie the vote, Tric. Or at least I think I did. Whatever, I'm saying it now.

You do have the perfect oppurtunity to fall on your sword Fal.

Frankly speaking if I don't stay alive everyone else will probably just let Spin weasel his way out of things.

And this, FoU.

I'm a cop, Tric. The 'needing people to die' thing is a balancing factor to being able to confirm people's alignments.

Why'd you even say this?  Typically cops don't need someone to die in order to confirm an alignment.

It's a drawback for how strong my role otherwise is.

I'm kinda surprised FoU hasn't made any sort of case yet for me to please investigate Max if we don't elim him today, which currently doesn't seem our most likely elim.

Max has said after this Day ends we'll immediately go into another one. If he's telling the truth, then there's no point in me arguing to investigate him. If he's lying, then that speaks for itself.

[TricMagic]

If Max is lying they'd better kill me first. Cause that's not the short of thing I'd let go Fal.