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[juicebox]

We're starting to get towards the end of the day, so yes, I'm thinking more in terms of who we should lynch. That doesn't mean that I'm dead set on Egan at this point, if they were to come on and sufficiently defend themselves, I would start looking elsewhere. With what we have right now though, I think Egan is the best lynch.

[Egan_BW]

Unvote. Fortunately, I stumbled onto a newfound vein of apathy towards playing social deduction games. Unfortunately for you all, this isn't really a scum-tell for me, I lose enthusiasm as both town and scum.

Questions time, as I vaguely remember them!

Do I have a post restruction?: yes, it has to do with my millerdom. I can't tell you exactly how they interact tho
Am I serious about voting whoever it was I was voting, or was it just a pressure vote?: I wasn't very serious, no. I was just following my algorithm.
oether questions probably: don't really care

[Egan_BW]

MS: MS-algined
AP: I unno
Imp: town I think
CM: town
Sofa: idk, some kind of slug cat?
NJW: town
juicebox: I forgot

[Imp]

Hey, Egan!  Welcome back.

So, what is/was fun for you in social deduction games?  Are there types you like better than others, or know you like worse?

Are there parts of games or things about games you liked or maybe still do?

I'm wondering, cause you're part of this game, tada, how we can help you enjoy it again/more/further.  Everyone's still going to play however they do, but what's fun for youuuuuuuu?

[sofanthiel]

Encouraging us not to quote Egan's posts 'in full'.  Which would involve repasting the database.  Just seems weird to me overall, it's personal effort to do and maintain and I expect it benefits Egan or else it wouldn't be done.  I don't see a social benefit, so I am thinking it's potentially ability-related.

Some users deem that quoting replies in full clutters up the thread and makes it harder to determine what exactly one is responding to in their posts; it could be as simple as that.

Sofanthiel: What do you think about Anime Pigeon's wagon?

I haven't jumped on it, so I don't believe it to be a great course of action, ha!  Reads like the usual RVS hydraulic press seen every other game, and I doubt it's any more likely to bear fruit than the numerous times it's been done before.

Sofethaniel is interesting, especially given this is my first game with them not being a Hydra.

Yeah, didn't really get to play last... month (fly flies) because the game started on a weekend and Jack and I were taken out back to be put down like the siamese freak of nature we were day 1 :'P

sofanthiel, your opening post was decent, but I want to hear a little bit more from you. What are your thoughts on what's been happening in the game so far? Does anyone stand out as suspicious to you?

As I understand it, Egan is being focused on for the sole reason of claiming miller, while a number of users are strong advocates of shooting immediate-millerclaimers on sight.  If we assume that there's >1 antagonists but only 1 miller (since it's a special role and unlikely to be an alignment several of us belong to), Egan is leaning more mafiawise than otherwise, numberswise.

Feel says this is not currently scum-sof

Certainly glad to hear it given my lackluster performance thus far!

Sofa: idk, some kind of slug cat?

Ehhh, more like a kind of furniture deity.
EGAN, does your role PM provide grounds to suspect that there's other filthy miller-rats lurking in the metaphorical shadows of the server we're jacked into?

[NJW2000]

I'm fine with Sofanthiel, I've seen mafia lurk to victory before and don't like letting it happen.

Never mind, had a post about this written but they showed up. Good. Seem focused and aggressive thus far, lean town.


There's about eight hours left, and we need a five person consensus... I thought the thread would be more active in the past few hours, and am now slightly worried we're going to no-elim, which very probably does not help our chances. Feel like we didn't manage to get that much meat out of D1 this game - serve me right for complaining about overstuffed days in other games. Probably nothing like enough time to organise an elim other than no-elim, AP, Egan or maybe sofa. I have a town lean on sofa and don't want AP for the elim, so it's egan or nothing.


Some aspects of Egan's recent posts look slightly better than the dubious plays early in the day, but for some reason I'm finding it difficult to believe the post restriction bit. The readslist is ok despite not having any actual scumreads (town players often struggle with that), but dismissing past reads with "I was just following my algorithm" feels like a bit of a cop-out. Plus the miller claim itself is still a reason not to trust them - I think town!egan would be perfectly capable of not claiming as miller and scum!egan might well end up doing it. I see egan's behaviour very plausibly coming from mafia here.

Also, apathy isn't something I can work with... even frustration or despair would be more helpful.

Yeah, I'm going to say EganBW.

[sofanthiel]

dismissing past reads with "I was just following my algorithm" feels like a bit of a cop-out.

This is another point I intended to bring up.  I was convinced that Egan's style was flavor, but conceding and admitting there's ineffable post restrictions after being pressed on it just doesn't sit right with me.  Not to mention, I've thought long and hard about what possible conditions would lead to Egan's behavior, yet couldn't come up with something not overly convoluted, nonsensical, and redundant.  Is Tric even known for introducing post restrictions to his threads?  I feel that's very GM-dependent, and I frankly don't remember if our Administrator has done anything similar to what Egan is claiming.

[TricMagic]

Egan_BW: NJW2000, sofanthiel, juicebox, AnimePigeon
sofanthiel: MaximumSpin,
AnimePidgeon: CrystalizedMire, Imp

Not Voting: Egan_BW

[Imp]

EganBW

I haven't seen amazing post restrictions from TricMagic yet - but TricMagic gave us the incredible last heist game with all it's convoluted puzzles.  Mafia that didn't understand they were maf, an anti-town thief that didn't understand they just had to survive.

My own situation last game enwrapped me in flavor and mech to the point I was maybe sure to die.  I was miller (and announced it at game start) and I was a very potent doctor, but I was also 'the killer' (the butler does it) for the solo mafia member (who was a grandfather) that was completely tied to me and knew it - I was his only way to kill, the redacted name in Quaraque's role.  Not that I knew it.


Me town doc and mafia's killer (not that I knew) that game:

Noble Butler of the Butlers [Town Cleanser]
You are your employer's servant in all ways, and that includes making sure nothing untoward happens to them.

You win once all anti-town Players are Elimniated, via Lynch or Kill.

[Auto] The Butler Did It: You investigate as Mafia.
[Day] Light Hands, Idle Work: Target a Player. They cannot be killed today, but can be lynched. Any Frames the target is subjected to are cleansed, and status effects removed.

Quaraque solo maf that game, and 'Imp' is the redacted [Player]:

Agent of the Malicious Agency of Fell Interstellar Agendas [Red Agent]
[Auto] Noble Connections: Your connections to the MAFIA have you investigate as Town to any cops in the crowd. An upstanding member of society with no reason to steal the Venus Fluorite Necklace. You do, after all, have all the money.
[Day] Polite Donations: You "donate" some of your money to another Player, giving them a target and an additional action for the Day. They must use one action to target that player today, if possible. Alternatively, they can use this to refill one of their shots.
[Extra Action, Mafiakill, Day] My Personal Butler: [Player] is Town. However, they are also your Butler. A handy scapegoat if needed. A useful ally if not. When you use this action, target a player. Your Butler will kill them in addition to their Action. This is not known to the Butler. Your Butler is unaware of your existence on the boat due to hypnosis performed upon them.

TrickMagic can create tremendous complexity and that wasn't even a openly bastard game.  I don't need to see him make a complex post restriction before I believe it's in his range.

We've also seen him create roles though that panicked the players that got them and they gave up/had no idea how to play them/were easy to find/felt wrong.  That happened that game, Qua basically fell apart D1.

I currently very nervously support an Egan elim.  My intense response to seeing Egan's first post was 'elim that poster'.  I have no mech reason backing that up, and I don't think it was because I was the one Egan declared to be scum (am I that bad?  I was that 'bad' last game as survivor with potent vote manip ability, but that's so different).  I don't feel the same urge to kill AP, though I'm concerned about him but I think it's because of his reasons and response, and what he says he thinks, not because he voted me.

It's not because of the miller claim, I don't inherently believe/disbelieve it.  It's the feel of the whole post.  And the reasoning and the effort and the claims about disinterest.

I'm terrified of how Egan might play late game if town if this apathy claim is honest.  I hate games that end because the remaining town don't care/aren't trying.

Egan's claims also do not work for me, the miller claim itself is null but the reasoning and feel of the rest, it looks wrong.

---

While my 'gun to head' guess on Sof is townie, I'm terrified that any of us are saying we're okay with letting him slide with so little info.

---

I thought the thread would be more active in the past few hours,

I have a town lean on sofa

Why do you have a town lean on sofa, NJW?

The last few hours of the thread were overnight, hah.  But yeah.  This game... We're playing Silence of the Lambs or something?

Also for honesty, while I am town here and did claim survivor last game, you were not in MS's supernormal where I was a survivor that claimed town and played as town to the end.  My meta definitely includes claiming either as survivor, and after so many town folks voting me post claim and post seeing people who vote me die, I'm unlikely to claim survivor exactly that again.  My doing so actually didn't help town or make my game easier in the way I expected, though I thought it would; I believed I was giving town:  Imp is solved, let's find scum.  I'd have been calmer accepting (slightly accepting) people saying they thought I was lying (that's rational and something to discuss, not destroy, for me) and hiding being scum behind a survivor claim (we saw web do that in Supernormal) --- but they said kill the survivor anyway, which doesn't help a town wincon and it sure hurts me and there's no rationality there, nothing to discuss.  Freaking elim anti-town if possible, pro-town folks.

Hope we elim anti-town here.  Apparently we elim someone we must and I don't see helping town win even if town, which OMG Egan if you're town OMG ahhhh nooooooooooo.  As I've said before 'If you're town, I need your help'.  Well, this game apparently I need your elim.  So please please please please be anti-town like you have felt.

Seriously, guys.  Last heist game TricMagic created it to have a miller and a godfather and a cop and a framer, and the alignment cop (which was NJW!!) and a role cop.  And everything was a convoluted (and joyfully complex, keep it coming, Tric!!!!) mess.

Whatever you are, good luck thinking your way through it.  Miller claims are potentially reasonable (I am not currently a miller and have no reason but 'bastard game' to think that could ever change) in a TricMagic game.  Incredible complexity is reasonable to expect in a TrickMagic game, even non-bastard.

And sof was in that last heist game, as a relatively simple role, town tracker who really could only just track the target and tell how many actions the tracked person did.  So even if you have a relatively simple role this game, that doesn't mean the game has mostly or only simple roles in it.

In case the no hammers thing is also bastard, and I know I'm 5th vote on Egan, good luck pro-town, may most of us survive tonight.

[TricMagic]

The No Hammers bit is not bastard, funny as that would be. Little under four hours left.

[Maximum Spin]

Egan_BW is fine too, yes.

[Imp]

Probably nothing like enough time to organise an elim other than no-elim, AP, Egan or maybe sofa. I have a town lean on sofa and don't want AP for the elim, so it's egan or nothing.

Do you think, or did you when you wrote this, that someone else (Who can't be organized in time to be the target, apparently) should be today's elim?

Who knows who lives to D2 or what the heck any of us is doing, but if you're open to discussing that wording and your thoughts before day ends, yay.

Grats to TricMagic and my fellow players.  This game, and our various playstyles, has my paranoia flying higher than maybe any I've played yet during D1.

[Maximum Spin]

Do you think, or did you when you wrote this, that someone else (Who can't be organized in time to be the target, apparently) should be today's elim?

For the record, although I can't speak for NJW2000, I do.

I also just don't really want to lynch Egan_BW. It's a shame that he often gets death-spiralled with apathy. But that's not really a good enough reason.

[Imp]

Do you think, or did you when you wrote this, that someone else (Who can't be organized in time to be the target, apparently) should be today's elim?

For the record, although I can't speak for NJW2000, I do.

I also just don't really want to lynch Egan_BW. It's a shame that he often gets death-spiralled with apathy. But that's not really a good enough reason.

Why not say who?

[NJW2000]

Why do you have a town lean on sofa, NJW?

Their post here gave some pretty explicit and firm opinions about Egan and AP (and ones that I thought were quite sensible). They're slightly playful as town, which I think we're seeing here, and they actually seem to be trying to puzzle out aspects of the setup. Aggressive, but not just focused on getting people out.

Do you think, or did you when you wrote this, that someone else (Who can't be organized in time to be the target, apparently) should be today's elim?

In terms of other people for the elim... not exactly, though I'd like to have had more information from today, which might have led to a different choice. For example, I'd like to see CM come under some pressure, though I'm happy with their posts so far. Would like to have a better grasp on Max, though he's always slippery. But I mostly just meant that there probably wouldn't be time to organise a different elimination target other than the 4 I mentioned (no elim, Sof, Egan, AP) because nobody other than them was being voted, and there was 8 hours left.