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[Imp]

We have reason to avoid confirming if we have spheres, we have seen a night kill method that works on spheres, and seen that we can be targeted and helped/harmed/changed by sphere, and saying 'I have this ability someone else has seen' is a way to get some of your spheres known - so I'm sympathetic if someone is hiding that they gained accelerate.

Thing is, dup has improvement on it.  I have dup now, but FoU knew I said dup would become free today.  If FoU 'wanted to save me resources' as FoU mentioned as part of 'why target improvement' - sure would have been helpful if FoU had mentioned in an understandable way D2 that I shouldn't spend resources on 'making dup free'.

FoU, can you show me where you said you wanted to save me resources D2, that you were gonna make dup free, so I should save my resources if it will cost me anything?  Otherwise, your saying it D3 after you claim you used an accelerate to make it free when you know it's going to be free looks weird and wrong to me.

On Night 2, I used my Accelerate copy on Cascade, and my base Accelerate on Improvement, to make the widest splash possible and also make the original Duplicate Free in Imp's hands. I know Imp said it'd become Free anyways, but I don't know if that costs some kind of resource?

Also, FoU, what makes you think 'improvement' sphere will 'make the widest splash possible'?

Searching the thread for 'improvement' -

Basically, each Emerald has a Sphere I can access, and the one I have now--Green--is Improvement.

Okay, he's dead, but he said had an improvement sphere D1, we see it on his flip too.

@Max: I think several players need the "Improvement" sphere.

Okay, so EJ thinks few players have that sphere, but could use it.

And nobody in the entire game says 'I have [Improvement], until FoU today.

Except FoU knows, and I know, that it's on dup, that I admit to having.  Possible spherefisher team Max and FoU may know that I have to have [Improvement], because that's what FoU actually used dup on, so if I have dup, that's what was dupped.

But That's just me going wtf FoU?  So help me understand how/why you thought using accelerate on [improvement] would make the widest splash possible again?  Since nobody alive in the game claimed they had it.

Also, FoU's fullclaim is a bit wack.

They claim:

I started out with:

-(auto) Butterfly Effect (vulnerability, flux),
Butterfly Effect, back when it existed, chose a random player at the start of each Day, and until the next Day, if that player died, I would too.

But this silly claim of 'full claim' doesn't include whatever butterfly effect now is.

Also they say:

I imagine Butterfly Integration randomly chose one of the spheres Spin had that it already had, and thus gained nothing. Unlucky if so.

So I'm guessing they have an ability that apparently they claim they don't include in their full claim and has lost vulnerable and is pure flux.  Not sure about that, the story has a LOT of holes in it as I try to understand it and make it feel real to me.

FoU, would you like to practice some more?  As in, explain this stuff?  Including what has Butterfly effect supposedly become now?

Also, nobody claims they have the other accelerate.  I say it could have come to me, if it exists, because of Dup if no other reason (Dup has improvement, even if nothing else I have does).  I do not have an accelerate either with or without a #2.  Nobody else has implied they have accelerate, but I expressly say I don't have it.

But I have a new question to the mod to check if that's an error.  Maybe someone's being smart/careful and not saying they have it, or maybe there's other darker reasons.  Your answers can help ease my mind, FoU, if they're true.  We can figure out the weird-wrongness stuff, just keep talking, please.  I don't think you can lie well enough to save yourself, but I think you can truth well enough to save yourself from me at least, because this is what I'm worried about in terms of your honesty.  And townie you should be truthing, I hope your death in Max's Supernormal as a determinedly lying townie helped urge you to not lie as much as town unless you're sure it's a pro-town lie and also sure it's best to go to the elim with that lie for pro-town reasons if that's what you do.  Generally, it's not pro-town to do that, but you have time to practice.

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, you're misunderstanding.

I didn't target [Improvement] to make the widest splash possible, I targeted [Cascade] to make the widest splash possible.

I targeted [Improvement] with my non-shotted Accelerate to get the ability with permanent usage into Crystalizedmire's hands specifically.

... now, mind you, I thought, that CM had claimed having Improvement, an 'ability that gives a target a buff', as I vaguely recall it.

I now stand corrected.

If nobody living has Improvement, I have no idea what the fuck would actually happen to my Accelerate. It may just spontaneously combust or something for all I know.

Re, Butterfly Effect. The fact that I lost Butterfly Effect and Integrate and gained Butterfly Integration on the same Night implies to me that the abilities were somehow merged, or at least cannibalized to form a new whole?

It's a real mess, and yes, I know Spin didn't flip with any such ability, but as the mod admitted above, flips can be screwed with, at least role-wise, and he picked Flux to begin with.

The only person who can answer this is Spin, and dead men tell no tales.

... and he's scum, anyways, so he'd probably lie just to fuck with us.

[Elephant Parade]

-snip-

I like that you've put out a case, but one thing immediately strikes me:

Revival makes sense as an SK defensive measure.

This doesn't make sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's really, really unusual for anti-town roles, even SKs, to be given abilities that outright cancel a lynch on them, which an unconditional revive is.

[Imp]

Currently, I have the Purple Chaos Emerald, a Ritual Knife, and (auto) Butterfly Integration (meta, flux, fruit-selling), which I gained Night 1 after losing both Butterfly Effect and Integrate.

Whenever a player dies, Butterfly Integration gains a random sphere that player had as part of their abilities. (If a sphere would be gained twice, the gain is cancelled.) If it ever reaches seven spheres, it transforms into a new form based on the spheres it gained.

It started out with meta and flux, then I was told it gained fruit-selling.

That's all I've got to claim. Any questions?

Oh, hey.  I see this now.  Cancel that one of my questions.  Still have my other questions to FoU.

[FallacyofUrist]

This doesn't make sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's really, really unusual for anti-town roles, even SKs, to be given abilities that outright cancel a lynch on them, which an unconditional revive is.

This is a really, really unusual game. We can't say what NQT might do, nor what drawbacks the revive might have.

Alternatively the revive is just a lie, in which case my point stands from a different direction, in that Jack is using an execution-avoidance tactic.

It's worth looking into, at least? I want Jack to try and make this make sense to me.

[Imp]

Fruit-Selling: You send players fruit. On its own, this does nothing, but may be augmented by other spheres.

- All abilities may be described in any number of ways, except fruit-selling and hats, which always involve fruit and hats.

FoU:

I don't think you've told us what your 'butterfly Integration' does.  Except supposedly it has fruit-selling which according to the mod will always involve fruit.

What's going on again?

[FallacyofUrist]

I explained what it does in the claim post. Give it a re-read?

[Crystalizedmire]

Fallacy: I still think you're sk. I never implied I thought you were mafia

[FallacyofUrist]

Fallacy: I still think you're sk. I never implied I thought you were mafia

Ahhh, that makes sense.

Well, if if I'm a SK, what's my role's modus operandi?

[Elephant Parade]

This doesn't make sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's really, really unusual for anti-town roles, even SKs, to be given abilities that outright cancel a lynch on them, which an unconditional revive is.

This is a really, really unusual game. We can't say what NQT might do, nor what drawbacks the revive might have.

Alternatively the revive is just a lie, in which case my point stands from a different direction, in that Jack is using an execution-avoidance tactic.

It's worth looking into, at least? I want Jack to try and make this make sense to me.

You said "makes sense as an SK defensive measure," like a resurrection power fits neatly into an SK role, not "is within the realm of the possible" or "could be bullshit." That's just one phrase, but I still don't like how hard you're backing away from it here, even if it's plausible that the meaning just didn't come across.

However, I agree that in the world where EJ is an SK, it's plausible that he's fakeclaiming unlynchable/revival/whatever, and just barely possible that he actually has 1-shot lynch protection/resurrection. But I had already thought about that, so your case doesn't make me any more interested in lynching EJ over you.

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, so? I'm not trying to make you execute EJ over me. Obviously I'm going to be executed, I'm just gathering information that can be used after my death.

[Elephant Parade]

I'm just explaining where my head is at.

[Imp]

Also, FoU.

Max told us various things about what his 'saving you' would do, namely that it would target a sphere and turn it into a different sphere.

He never told the class that it would merge two of your abilities and cause the merge to lose more than vulnerability.  This was a potentially scummy thing that Max did, which townie you might reasonably have discussed as a 'that's not what you said would happen'.  I get if pro-town not-teamed with max you is trying to protect possibly town Max.  But that someone maybe interfered...

A way I'd have checked that would be to ask "Max, what happened to me doesn't really match your claim of

Fine, I'll bite, if only to get more information out of you. What exactly are you proposing?

I can remove your ability and replace it with an ability that is more good and less bad. Hopefully. I have no actual control over what you get except at the sphere level.

I have no idea what it'll do! It's a secret to everyone! It'll definitely stop being the sphere I use, though, so presumably it will no longer make you vulnerable.

Any other spheres you want cleaned off it? I'm not saying precisely what I can do, but let's go with, there's possibly more than nothing, and I'm gonna use a shot on this so it might as well count.

I get that you play as you please, but I would have totally D2 checked into 'do you think I got whammied by someone besides you?  Something really different happened, more than one ability affected, I lost more spheres than vulnerability on the multiple affected abilities, should we be concerned about this?  Do we have someone else messing with me/you/us all?'

But if you're making this up as you go along, then there's no reason to have been alarmed or confused by that D2, because, y'know, there was nothing to be concerned about then.

I explained what it does in the claim post. Give it a re-read?

It... does what Integrate originally did... and it... doesn't fruit-sell in any way, despite having fruit-sell on it?

Is that right, true, and what you're claiming, FoU?

Also, no, there's at least one living player with [improvement].  It's on Dup.  I have dup.  There could be other living players with [improvement]

I targeted [Improvement] with my non-shotted Accelerate to get the ability with permanent usage into Crystalizedmire's hands specifically.

How's that supposed to work?  You should know Duplicate has Improvement on it and I've claimed I have duplicate and wasn't using it last night.  So you have to know it could come to me if everything works as you claim.  Maybe it's a mod error that I don't have it - my question waits nqt having time.  Maybe someone else has it and is being silent, which isn't necessarily anti-town.  I'm not interested in spherefishing, not trying to get someone to say they have it, instead I take the risk and say "I don't, and your claim of why you targeted [improvement] made at start of D3 doesn't work for me at all, wow, and we have this Sketch #2 mystery, maybe they're connected, so I chase".

And that 'saving me resources maybe' thing... don't like it.  Unless you can show where you told me D2 trying to save me resources (mind you, I'm not saying it cost me anything.  I'm not complaining that I wasted resources, but you gave it as your reason when you first brought it up).  But... to save me resources you have to tell me somehow 'don't spend resources on that'.

[FallacyofUrist]

Fair enough.

Butterfly Integration doesn't gain functionality until it reaches its threshold, it just copies the spheres. It's a meta thing, I guess.

I only thought of the saving resources thing when I was considering what I would do for my night actions, after the Day had ended.

... I forgot that your Duplicate had Improvement on it. This game is really hard to keep track of.

And frankly I am very tired of thinking.

[Elephant Parade]

-snip-

I made the same argument here, albeit with some differences in detail.