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[Imp]

I personally just think you're paranoid and overthinking things. Also, am I not allowed to have an opinion?

Sure, please have opinions and talk and express.  How else can I read you?

Last comment before I work on those claims, and it's an important one:

I want it understood that I view NJW as scum that has the Page.  They had wiggle room to town-out.  They did not even look at town-outing. They want to scum out; they are scum.

If NJW is alive for N2 - I expect them to keep the page, period.  They claim they have a second wincon:

Ok. I have the second wincon - I win and leave the game if targeted by scum on three consecutive nights.

It’s pretty dumb, and can only really be achieved if I know who the mafia are, in which case I just plan on killing them instead. But it would be fun to achieve it in a way that furthers town, which is why I want the bible page. It does feel like it was made for me and my role.

I picked second wincon because they’re silly and give me an intrinsic advantage over other players, and I’ve always found it annoying when other people had them.

To my current view and understanding, if they are alive N2 and that Page goes into anyone's hands OR there is a kill, we must elim NJW D3.  They've waffled on everything important.  They are scum.

Quarque: may not be able to make the trade, if I need to trade with Toony instead. Sorry, I'd have loved an apple. Instead of a bomb.

I have the bible page. I should keep it to redirect the kill to me… I might ask for that apple as I can’t be 100% sure I’ll live. People treating it like a cursed item is weird: someone will get hit by the mafia kill, this just lets us control it.

I wishboned toony and FoU and somehow lost the wishbone doing that… I don’t get it but maybe somebody else will. Mechanical speculation unlikely to be crucial to the win in a closed game let alone a BYOR.

Imp: that's good to know, and I understand on the apple front. I think there's a reasonable chance I survive the night, and otherwise we don't get to absorb the kill, making this endless faffing about with the bible page pointless. I need to ask the GM something, it might be very counterproductive for me to have an apple in fact.

Hmm

Imp - I may want to trade an apple for an artefact (not the book). Would that be reasonable?

Imp: sorry if you've already answered this, but in your hands, the bible page may not still redirect kills to the holder. As such, you may not be able to stop a kill with the apple you hold. Am I right in thinking you believe your having the bible page and the apple is more important than the chance to prevent a nightkill?

You had better reasons for thinking web was scum right?

I love this question!  No.  Exact same reasons.  Sum total of play is anti-town, quite strongly.

[Elephant Parade]

Imp: I already said this, but you post too damn much. Part of the reason I scumread Toony is that it feels like he's barely played the game this Day, but I also don't really feel like playing the game, because it's starting to feel like you're the only other player. And the problem isn't that the other player is you, it's that there are supposed to be NINE. Post less.

[TricMagic]

To my current view and understanding, if they are alive N2 and that Page goes into anyone's hands OR there is a kill, we must elim NJW D3.  They've waffled on everything important.  They are scum.

This bit I can definitely agree with. I was just worried that you were leaning towards a NJW lynch before they'd had a chance to prove themselves.

To note, my main suspicion against you has to do with the scattered items and that all steal you have. I don't believe you're mafia. As has been said before, that would be one hell of a bus with no good trade off. That and probably more restraint would be shown.

My main suspicions are Jack, Max, and Toony. NJW I still read as town at this point. Crystal is almost certainly town, that isn't going to change. NJW's read status can change however, it's not solid. I still don't have a solid read on Elephant. Fallacy is unlikely to be scum, which is good enough for me at the moment. (Elephant is someone who I'm fine not having a read on when there are better targets to flip.)


For Jack, their play is.. I suppose more methodical from normal. There is a lot of posts that just feel off to me, both on day 1 and day 2.
Max has been both involved, off handed, and joking at times. This doesn't read as normal to me.
Toony is the weakest, as they were playing with web as if it were already confirmed they were town. That's the extent of my suspicion, association.

Does that off some insight into my mental state?

[Imp]

Imp: sorry if you've already answered this, but in your hands, the bible page may not still redirect kills to the holder. As such, you may not be able to stop a kill with the apple you hold. Am I right in thinking you believe your having the bible page and the apple is more important than the chance to prevent a nightkill?

I keep coming back to this, even as I work on other claims.

If there is any chance to 'prevent a nightkill', it comes from the claims NJW made D1, which is why I spoke in support of the trade to NJW. 

is more important than the chance to prevent a nightkill?

No, you holding it with the chance to prevent the night kill you already claimed is where that item belongs.  We discussed this D1 and D2.  I supported my having the Page as an alternative that only makes the Page not be a 'hot potato item' of trading it around.  I can put it to a pro-town use.  It won't cause my death.

Your having it if you can handle a anti-town kill, that's the best pro-town use possible, especially if we can also eliminate the kill sphere from the game, especially early on.  All those plans are being discussed and seem likely to happen.

It's anti-town and seriously scum to change anything about you holding the Page now.  You had time earlier, loads of D2 time, all of N1.  You already made your choice.  You're too anti-town in thinking for me to continue to accept the Page from you.

It's not from fear of the Page.  I never feared it.  It's from 'where does this have pro-town use, and does it have a better pro-town use'?

[Imp]

To note, my main suspicion against you has to do with the scattered items and that all steal you have. I don't believe you're mafia. As has been said before, that would be one hell of a bus with no good trade off. That and probably more restraint would be shown.

I'm not interested in saving myself.

However, what I can do is NAI.  It comes from what I asked for and discussed before game started, and then events that have happened since game started.  What you need to read of us all is what am I doing, what am I working towards, with action, words, and inaction - is that pro town, anti town, or other.

For people scared of Imp and items:  Watch what I do with them.  Track confirmation of that.

Your biggest clue right now about my attitude towards items:

I have reason to think NJW has 2 artefacts right now.  I'm ready to lynch them today because I think their focus is anti-town.  I mean it.  That takes two artefacts out of play.  I don't even care.  I've already said I can make more, I just don't know where they go, if they help or hurt who gets them.  I'm also trading one to EP today.  I'm not canceling that trade.

I can do pro-town things with items.  I am doing them.  If I have to choose between something that benefits me and something that benefits town - I don't even care about me.  I don't have the 'anti-town stopper' ability.  My abilities are very, very secondary to me.  I'm serious that I think pro-town wins this based on day game  - that is, talking.

[Imp]

I also can see it as pro-town, but weak, iffy, scary, high risk, to not lynch NJW today even knowing them scum, and make them do a 'pinned scum dance for town trick, we lynch you tomorrow if you don't dance as told'.  Some games, wheee!  This game... you're letting cancer grow unless you pick the right scum, one that can't grow or be grown.  I don't think we can ensure that, I think we should laugh at the idea instead.

Seriously this game, we can't be sure of pins.  There's a lot of manipulation that can happen even if someone does exactly what they agree to.  But I'm not deeply opposed to that answer if there's a better one.

But I'm not voting NJW.  More talk, and from NJW.  When you calm down, help me understand your discussion focus as pro-town, and why it was more townie of you to use that wishbone on those folks last night instead of 'give apple to imp' last night, since you're so eager to discuss it leaving your hands today, and not first thing today, but late, after a lot is discussed and you know there's now no reasonable way that there's likely to be more than the night kill flying.

You didn't try to trade that Page for anything but the apple until MS seemed to understand and potentially agree to removing kill sphere from game N2.  All kills are the one nightkill, buddy, and now you want that apple moving so we can control the night kill N3.  I do not like it, you are anti-town thinking.

Discuss when you're ready.  I've been wrong before.

[Imp]

This has also been bugging the heck out of me.

Ok. I have the second wincon - I win and leave the game if targeted by scum on three consecutive nights.

It’s pretty dumb, and can only really be achieved if I know who the mafia are, in which case I just plan on killing them instead. But it would be fun to achieve it in a way that furthers town, which is why I want the bible page. It does feel like it was made for me and my role.

I picked second wincon because they’re silly and give me an intrinsic advantage over other players, and I’ve always found it annoying when other people had them.

If that's true, I think it would be NAI to announce that D1.  We know the player has no control over what their second wincon is, and that nqt decides what the second wincon is.  Maybe before he decides who scum is.  I see nothing in second wincon mechanics that makes it seem impossible even for a scum to have that as a second wincon, but if it is impossible, then we know the person with it isn't scum, and scum know they don't have to kill them to get them out of the game, that's good for scum.  Just target the person with something while some other scum uses the kill elsewhere, and they probably got free actions between them or stuff they're interested in doing besides just killing.

Seems an all-around win for an honest D1 claim of 'if scum target me 3x, I'm out'.  Seems a possible intended balance if NJW is intended to hold that Page as an option, so he can't hold it all game; if it does draw the NK 3x, bye NJW with a win for mission accomplished and great service to town as well, especially if NJW is built for this.  They claimed to maybe be.

I think he has a second wincon.  I think he lied about what.

NJW discuss.

[Imp]

why I want the bible page. It does feel like it was made for me and my role.

And then all the other waffles.  This is trapped anti-town.  I can't see otherwise.

NJW, discuss when you're ready.  If you are town, I have zero desire to kill you.  You don't play like a crazed rabid squirrel, except with this page/apple anti-town preference stuff.

If you're town, we need to clear this up.  Only you can explain you.

Same deal I made to MS.  I am listening.  I don't want to see anyone but anti-town die.

[Crystalizedmire]

Thanks, CM.

I like your logic here but am about you switching over from the old popular lynchee to the new. But then, I also want to lynch MS today. On the whole, I think you're probably town.

Did you do anything to develop your read over the two days your vote was on me?

I did absolutely nothing to develop my read on you. I just thought: "suspcious" and that is it.
Imp: Use less words. Be laconic. I don't have all the time and energy in the world to read your posts.

[notquitethere]

Friendly mod reminder that if players aren't hammering they're encouraged to take a break over the weekend as it counts for 0 hours.

Five days is too long for a single day of mafia, so either give yourself some time off or end the day through a hammer.

[TricMagic]

Friendly mod reminder that if players aren't hammering they're encouraged to take a break over the weekend as it counts for 0 hours.

Five days is too long for a single day of mafia, so either give yourself some time off or end the day through a hammer.

points up.

Max or Jack, who are we lynching? Get your votes in now! (Cause we need 5 to lynch and are at 2 each.)

[ToonyMan]

@Imp:
I highly doubt NJW is mafia.

And, holy shit please stop posting. I'm serious. The only post I'm going to read is a N1 claim list.

I think a lot of players have been participating fine, especially for the weekend, but it's almost impossible to see this because of wordswordswordswordswordawordswordswords.

@NJW:
I've already explained why I picked Secondary Wincon three times now. It's hard to tell for the same reason I didn't see your question because there's too many fucking posts.

I can learn Emeralds, Blue Spheres, Red Spheres, other items, etc.

I chose 2nd wincon because I expect to die and wanted to put the town at ease that everyone was playing to an understandable wincon instead of dumb bullshit. I got back 1, but you have come out as the 2nd wincon player and the claim is extremely believable. I think my decision was fine.

@Jack:
Self-voting is so dumb.

I don't recommend trying to kill me tonight because then there's a 50% chance mafia will get their pick instead of targeting NJW.

Now that I think about it my Bible Page is amazing for NJW because it's not like it goes away. Anybody who tries to interfere with the Bible Page is scum.

[Imp]

It's sad.  Noticing that inconsistency about NJW's second wincon claim.  It supports Toony's claim.

It's a low likelihood sphere choice for any of us to choose, I think.  Odds are there's not 2 of us that really have it.

If someone claims it, then scum partner of toony NJW doesn't have to say they have it, and probably no real second claimer.

If nobody else claims it, NJW has that weird sounding, fake sounding to me wincon claim that doesn't feel real.

Oh, Toony the silent, who my subconscious keeps telling me not to make the claims list for, but do anything else instead.

I really need to rethink my reads list.

Toony, discuss.  I don't care about sus stuff.  Where the bleep is your pro-town play?  When you're ready, it's weekend.  But seriously, the bleep.

[Imp]

Sorry to post so much.  I'ma go be sad now, but the best pro-town play today maybe is elim NJW, not have Max remove kill, and let EJ kill Toony if he can, I don't know if Plank is a day ability or what.

I'm not sure.  But I hate what I'm seeing.

I'll be back in a few hours.

[Crystalizedmire]

How does Imp even post so much