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[Elephant Parade]

Ok. I have the second wincon - I win and leave the game if targeted by scum on three consecutive nights.

It’s pretty dumb, and can only really be achieved if I know who the mafia are, in which case I just plan on killing them instead. But it would be fun to achieve it in a way that furthers town, which is why I want the bible page. It does feel like it was made for me and my role.

I picked second wincon because they’re silly and give me an intrinsic advantage over other players, and I’ve always found it annoying when other people had them.

OK, I feel better about you and Toony now. I guess you could be scumbuddies but I don't know if Toony/NJW makes sense.

[Imp]

Why would a tie be a bad plan? My understanding was that, in the event of a tie, the exact same thing would happen as would happen if there was one first place and one second place player, so it didn't make a difference. I cannot warn you about something I don't know.

NQT:  Are you willing to correct any errors in my understanding of what the D1 elim based on votes would look like in these cases?

1st, 2nd, 3rd place have one player in them: I expect only 1st and 2nd players are elim.

1st place has 2 players in it, 2nd place has 1: I expect only 1 or 2 of the 1st place players to be elim.

1st place has 3+ players in it, 2nd place has 1:  I expect only 2 of the 1st place players to be elim.

1st place has 1 player in it, 2nd place has 2+:  I expect only the 1st place player to be elim.

Yes that looks correct to me.

[Imp]

EBWOP:

Current possible Eliminations: sofanthiel, webadict,

A tie of 1st place means, based on abilities, a chance that one of the tied first place people won't die.

if web happens to have that, then web will live, sof will die, if the votes don't change.

If we have just 1 first and just 1 second place person, then both of them die, no protection, based on what nqt explained in the thread.

I don't know if either of them have the protection that was mentioned.

But either both or one of them is the potential elim.

However, if you wanted to try to protect one of them, this is a way to try.  And if you know the person has the protection, this is a great idea.

[Elephant Parade]

People who have had the wishbone: Could you clarify how it works? Does it make both targets target each other if they have any player-targeting abilities, or only if they have the same player-targeting ability?

[Crystalizedmire]

Both players target eachother if they have single target abilities

[Imp]

Both players target eachother if they have single target abilities

As far as I know 'single target' does not exist as a [single target].

NQT, may we please get a list of what you would consider single target abilities, is that a meaningful question that can be answered?

I am thinking [target] is one, but are there any others, and if so, what are they?

[NJW2000]

Hmm

Imp - I may want to trade an apple for an artefact (not the book). Would that be reasonable?

[Elephant Parade]

Both players target eachother if they have single target abilities

OK. I was going to say that that means it can't have been you and I who were targeted by the wishbone because I only have two abilities and they're both chat invites, but when I looked at my PM I realized that wasn't true: I have a [target] item that targets a player and does literally nothing. I can trade this away to anyone who wants to confirm.

[Imp]

Hmm

Imp - I may want to trade an apple for an artefact (not the book). Would that be reasonable?

Apple again.

You kinda hemmed and hawed about that apple and it being good/bad for you.

I would strongly prefer not to trade that apple.

There's a bunch of stuff I can do with that apple, and I have some plans for it that might be generally useful.  I'm not 100% set on not trading it, but it's unlikely.  Also, you have the Page, and you have waffled on the idea of the apple in general, which makes me uneasy, and makes me lean towards not wanting the apple to you.  That's not a hard no, but I'd take considerable convincing.

[Imp]

To my eyes, the Page in your hands, as claimed, is hugely town beneficial and fairly confirmable N2+.  I'd work hard to get you the Page and I did as much as I thought useful towards that end, because that's quite pro town if true.

The apple in your hands less so, since you have claimed you should have protection of some sort.  My various uses of the apple, quite useful, and include more, potentially than just my own 1 night preservation if targeted, though I could just eat it as well.  That's based on what I understand of your ability claims, what I understand of myself, and what I'm willing to say with anti-town listening.

Whatcha got to persuade me, you repeat-apple-waffler?

[EuchreJack]

@Imp: Is NQT town? If yes, trade him the damn apple.

[EuchreJack]

Provided I survive this day, I'm gonna want to be able to confirm my actions again. So I'm going to open up a BAZAAR. Anyone have spheres you regret taking? Anyone have abilities you don't quite like in their current form? Anyone just want some new stuff because you're easily bored and distractible by shiny objects? Yes I'm going to have to rolefish to do this, sue me for taking spheres that sounded fun. I don't expect anybody to give me any information you don't want to, I thought this was a mafia game where we all understand how that works, sorry, still a little annoyed about the Quarque thing. Like yes I actually did assume that Quarque, and indeed every players, is a grown adult or adult-equivalent capable of choosing how much to explain without feeling obligated to spew information without even being asked an actual question. Moving on. I need some spheres to screw around with, so give me your best offers.

Scrub "Limitation" from my role, and I might just be able to make your dreams come true, if you know what I mean. 

[Maximum Spin]

All right.
Who's still in the game besides me? TricMagic, CrystalizedMire, ToonyMan, Elephant Parade, NJW2000, FallacyofUrist, Imp, and EuchreJack. That's in no particular order, nor is the following, and EuchreJack (who always complains about unordered reads lists, for those unaware) can suck on it.

I can't really comprehend a world where CrystalizedMire or Imp could be teamed with webadict. I didn't care for either of their play d1, and I still find Imp's play particularly unhelpful for town, but I have to conclude this is accidental rather than intentional.

My meta read on TricMagic is "notably suspicious", but I don't think Tric can be with web either. Maybe you're an SK or something, I don't even care, I hope you win. It's also entirely possible that you're town but submitted one of your memes like "protect mafia, kill town", so your role still benefits from being shady.

Fallacy is probably town, but absolutely committed to voting out ToonyMan for... some... reason. That's so far within Fallacy's town meta that I don't even think it bears comment. I hope that Fallacy is basically impossible to read wrong, and you're acting like you have no more information than everyone else and, in fact, don't even fully understand the information everyone has. I would appreciate it if you could tone down the rampant paranoia so that you don't get tricked into voting out town and then blamed for voting out town, you know, again.

Technically, I should be suspicious of NJW2000 for meta reasons because town NJW2000 always has the worst d1 reads, but I'm not seriously considering that and instead I am going to sheep NJW2000 all day. There's also no way you ever bus webadict like that because that would be fun and you hate fun.

I don't actually think I have any meta on Elephant Parade at this time, but I feel like he was just as suckered in by webadict as I was, so I want to give that the benefit of the doubt. He seems to be interested in scumhunting and particularly pressing others to do so as well, too.

ToonyMan... in terms of actual behavior I townread you most strongly of everyone, which is a concern to me because I remember MVM3, but I'm not going to lynch you based on that in some kind of Knightwingesque bizarro-world vote. If it really is a Dream Team repeat, just nightkill me and save me the trouble. But you'd probably want to earn style points after BYOR 16, right? But seriously, no, I don't actually think it's a repeat of MVM3.5, I think you're just town and trusted web.

Lastly, EuchreJack hasn't seemed like his townself to me all game, and ToonyMan agreed so I'm not totally crazy, but web covered for him in a way that feels just like FBYOR 5. So I feel like this is where I would be voting if I weren't committed to doing whatever NJW2000 says. In particular, I don't remember seeing an ounce of panic from him at end of day, despite the double-lynch and the not insignificant chance of moving votes around. In what universe does a town EuchreJack not freak out about last-minute ties? I assume he was asleep at the actual end of day but I mean even before that!
I wrote that pretty stream of consciousness and I feel like I should give it a proofread but I don't want to and I'm going to go get food and ignore the thread instead.
I'd also like to say: if I were hypothetically interested in interacting with anyone who mentioned it, I assumed that any abilities that would apply in the case of a two-way tie-for-first could also apply in the event of a clear first-and-second lynch. Notquitethere didn't strictly rule that out and it would make sense. In any event, we now know that webadict had no such abilities, which I would presumably have known if teamed with him, so tying the vote could not have saved him even if that were how it works. "Letting" (ie, not saying anything I didn't know I was expected to say about it) NJW2000 tie the vote didn't serve any purpose at all. Unless you think *I*'m the one who has that ability and can apply it to my partner, I guess, which, whatever, WIFOM, but that's dumb.

and indeed every players

did I really make that typo?

[Imp]

Players that want that apple out of my hands are bugging me badly.  EJ is one of them, and he has no possible reason that I understand other than apple out of imp hands goal.

He's high on my concern list.

That said, many players may have 2+ actions per night.  I don't consider MS confirmed as 'just' unlimiting someone, if that happens.  However, it's EJ that wants to be unlimited, so that wouldn't be happening N2 if EJ is D2 elim.

While confirming people is 'great', it's also potentially impossible in this game.  We can't tell who has how many actions, or if they use them all; they can change hugely from night to night as well - this is based on the flips we've all seen.

I care about overall play and what we can track, whatever that is, but the day game is so huge here.  We should consider that if we do decide to lynch anyone, because confirm action is potentially a joke in this game, at least for some of us.  "Okay, you did that.  What other 12 things did you do?"  Seriously.  So we need to rely on much more than that.

[EuchreJack]

All right.
Who's still in the game besides me? TricMagic, CrystalizedMire, ToonyMan, Elephant Parade, NJW2000, FallacyofUrist, Imp, and EuchreJack. That's in no particular order, nor is the following, and EuchreJack (who always complains about unordered reads lists, for those unaware) can suck on it.

I can't really comprehend a world where CrystalizedMire or Imp could be teamed with webadict. I didn't care for either of their play d1, and I still find Imp's play particularly unhelpful for town, but I have to conclude this is accidental rather than intentional.

My meta read on TricMagic is "notably suspicious", but I don't think Tric can be with web either. Maybe you're an SK or something, I don't even care, I hope you win. It's also entirely possible that you're town but submitted one of your memes like "protect mafia, kill town", so your role still benefits from being shady.

Fallacy is probably town, but absolutely committed to voting out ToonyMan for... some... reason. That's so far within Fallacy's town meta that I don't even think it bears comment. I hope that Fallacy is basically impossible to read wrong, and you're acting like you have no more information than everyone else and, in fact, don't even fully understand the information everyone has. I would appreciate it if you could tone down the rampant paranoia so that you don't get tricked into voting out town and then blamed for voting out town, you know, again.

Technically, I should be suspicious of NJW2000 for meta reasons because town NJW2000 always has the worst d1 reads, but I'm not seriously considering that and instead I am going to sheep NJW2000 all day. There's also no way you ever bus webadict like that because that would be fun and you hate fun.

I don't actually think I have any meta on Elephant Parade at this time, but I feel like he was just as suckered in by webadict as I was, so I want to give that the benefit of the doubt. He seems to be interested in scumhunting and particularly pressing others to do so as well, too.

ToonyMan... in terms of actual behavior I townread you most strongly of everyone, which is a concern to me because I remember MVM3, but I'm not going to lynch you based on that in some kind of Knightwingesque bizarro-world vote. If it really is a Dream Team repeat, just nightkill me and save me the trouble. But you'd probably want to earn style points after BYOR 16, right? But seriously, no, I don't actually think it's a repeat of MVM3.5, I think you're just town and trusted web.

Lastly, EuchreJack hasn't seemed like his townself to me all game, and ToonyMan agreed so I'm not totally crazy, but web covered for him in a way that feels just like FBYOR 5. So I feel like this is where I would be voting if I weren't committed to doing whatever NJW2000 says. In particular, I don't remember seeing an ounce of panic from him at end of day, despite the double-lynch and the not insignificant chance of moving votes around. In what universe does a town EuchreJack not freak out about last-minute ties? I assume he was asleep at the actual end of day but I mean even before that!
I wrote that pretty stream of consciousness and I feel like I should give it a proofread but I don't want to and I'm going to go get food and ignore the thread instead.
I'd also like to say: if I were hypothetically interested in interacting with anyone who mentioned it, I assumed that any abilities that would apply in the case of a two-way tie-for-first could also apply in the event of a clear first-and-second lynch. Notquitethere didn't strictly rule that out and it would make sense. In any event, we now know that webadict had no such abilities, which I would presumably have known if teamed with him, so tying the vote could not have saved him even if that were how it works. "Letting" (ie, not saying anything I didn't know I was expected to say about it) NJW2000 tie the vote didn't serve any purpose at all. Unless you think *I*'m the one who has that ability and can apply it to my partner, I guess, which, whatever, WIFOM, but that's dumb.

and indeed every players

did I really make that typo?

Yes, you did indeed say "every players, is a grown adult or adult-equivalent capable of choosing how much to explain without feeling obligated to spew information without even being asked an actual question.", when you clearly should have added "Except EuchreJack"

Also: Your reads-list is organized from least to most scummy in your eyes. Way to go!