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[Elephant Parade]

What is it about Esteemed Secretdorf that makes some people want to protect that one so much?  I am enjoying this curiosity.

He isn't lurking as hard as BHK or KW, he has confirmable actions on N2 and N3 (i.e., the nights with unclaimed scum actions floating around), and he gives me meh vibes. I'm not a particularly big fan of him, especially with how quiet he's been today, but I'd rather eliminate Knightwing, He Who Does Not Claim.

[FallacyofUrist]

Votecount time.

BlackHeartKabal (2): Maximum Spin, hector13
Elephant Parade (0):
hector13 (0):
Imp (0):
Jim Groovester (0):
Knightwing64 (2): Jim Groovester, Elephant Parade
Lenglon (0):
Maximum Spin (0):
notquitethere (0):
Secretdorf (3): notquitethere, Imp, BlackHeartKabal
The Canadian kitten (0):
ToonyMan (0):

No Execution (0):

8 votes to hammer.

Not Voting (8): Lenglon, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, The Canadian kitten, ToonyMan

As always in my games, if the Day ends with a tie in the execution votes, no player is executed.

[Elephant Parade]

How many hours until end of day?

[Imp]

Votecount time.

Please, Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, would you double check this part?

Secretdorf.

[Imp]

How many hours until end of day?

Day 4 has started. Day 4 will end December 30th - Saturday, 6 PM Central time, in approximately 48 hours. You may now post.

We have more than 20 hours left, I think!

[Maximum Spin]

I didn't make a deal to give the Esteemed webadimp my votes, but clearly somebody has to be the one to remind the one who did, so... Esteemed Secretdorf.

[Imp]

I didn't make a deal to give the Esteemed webadimp my votes, but clearly somebody has to be the one to remind the one who did, so... Esteemed Secretdorf.

Thank you, hugely.  I understand you will change your vote at any time you choose, for your own reasons, and even if you choose to remind someone is your own choice and never owed or coerced.

I do not support a hammer at this early stage, just saying!

I deeply want us to hear from Esteemed Knightwing64, and I remind us all needlessly, it's holidays time and that one, any of us could have reasons to need more time than expected.

Esteemed BlackHeartKabal was absent nearly 24 hours, then came back and played informatively and usefully.  They may be scum, I don't think so, we can fix that later if needed, but we gained more information, and it wasn't information I expected either.

I think Esteemed Knightwing64 has a very interesting story to tell us, and I'd like them to have a chance to speak.

[FallacyofUrist]

Please, Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, would you double check this part?

Secretdorf.

Yup, looks like I missed that one.

How many hours until end of day?

Looks like... about 19 hours and 22 minutes.

[Imp]

Spoiler: musings (click to show/hide)

I targeted Esteemed Maximum Spin, bussed to Esteemed Jim Groovester.

Esteemed Imp inspects Esteemed notquitethere.

Esteemed Secretdorf steals vote from Esteemed Knightwing64

Esteemed Jim Groovester appears to be claiming the same?

Esteemed BlackHeartKabal marks Esteemed Lenglon

Esteemed Lenglon inspects Esteemee Maximum Spin, bussed to Esteemed Jim Groovester/Esteemed BlackHeartKabal

I guess that leaves six claims currently to be made, unless I missed things?

Hey, yeah Esteemed hector13, there are more claims.  To my best understanding, this is what I believe is said about D4 claims:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D4 facts:

No deaths.
Esteemed CrystalizedMire is again banished.
8 votes to hammer
Esteemed Secretdorf has 5 votes, 2 more than the day before when they 'unneccessarily hammered' at the final minute of play, bringing the vote count exactly to hammer.
Esteemed Jim Groovester, known for vote stealing, has one vote.
Esteemed Knightwing64 has no vote.

D4 claims so far:

Esteemed Jim Groovester claims attempted votesteal on Esteemed Knightwing64 and says didn't get targeted with the targeted 'Esteem' ability from Esteemed hector13.

Esteemed hector13 claims to have targeted Esteemed Jim Groovester with an ability granting power that appears to have succeeded, however a disturbed Esteemed Maximum Spin claims to have received it instead.

Esteemed BlackHeartKabal claims to have marked, not roleblocked Esteemed Lenglon

Esteemed Elephant Parade 'I roleblocked (and bombed) CM again.'  Appears to indicate they did this because they think that person is scum.

Esteemed Imp claims to have properly 'Esteemed Webadict inspected' Esteemed notquitethere, and gotten the definite and certain result 'town'.

Esteemed Knightwing64 [not yet spoken]

Esteemed Lenglon "I had strange results last night, I was marked for death, and my action was repeated despite me not double-actioning. I'd like to sit on my information until some more claims have been made before sharing if nobody minds."  "Max: I targeted you, I was fulfilling my D1 implied promise of checking the miller claims."

Esteemed Maximum Spin (to Esteemed Lenglon) "I certainly know that you used your chat-detector and it hit two players, but I don't know whom."  Also says they didn't target Esteemed Lenglon, and were redirected.

Esteemed notquitethere reports that Esteemed Toonyman targetted Esteemed Imp, or was targetted by Esteemed Imp.

Esteemed Secretdorf [not yet spoken] says stole Esteemed Knightwing64's vote.

Esteemed The Canadian kitten investigated Esteemed Secretdorf, got result 'town'. (note can be redirected, is not a super inspect.)

Esteemed ToonyMan "I only targeted Imp."

Link to updated D2 and D3 claims here.

If anyone can correct any errors, please discuss!

[Jim Groovester]

We should be voting Knightwing64 to summon him.

What is it about Esteemed Secretdorf that makes some people want to protect that one so much?  I am enjoying this curiosity.

He isn't lurking as hard as BHK or KW, he has confirmable actions on N2 and N3 (i.e., the nights with unclaimed scum actions floating around), and he gives me meh vibes. I'm not a particularly big fan of him, especially with how quiet he's been today, but I'd rather eliminate Knightwing, He Who Does Not Claim.

I'm probably already forgetting Day 4 claims, but in addition to all this, The Canadian kitten claimed to target Secretdorf and the result was not anti town.

What is it about Esteemed Secretdorf that makes some people want to protect that one so much?  I am enjoying this curiosity.

. . .

I think it is definitely possible Esteemed Jim Groovester may be scum, and if so, seems to be working with Esteemed Secretdorf.

But folk not on that scum team, look at the votes.  Let's fix the more dangerous scum first, and if Esteemed Secretdorf, who has not played townly all game, flips town, I am dismayed and regretful, but if they flip scum and we didn't stop them there, disaster.  We don't have much time left, and seriously - they haven't done one thing that feels town to me all game.  It's not just the votes.  It's the votes plus the rest of the behavior.

And if you think Esteemed Jim is scum, Esteemed Secretdorf really, really appears to be that one's partner and how that one is covering their scumly night duties.  But it's Esteemed Secretdorf with the 5 votes.  We gotta lynch that one first, not all scum are the same in a game like this.

'i want to lynch Secretdorf'
'let's lynch scum instead'
*scum flips on Day 2'
'i want to lynch Secretdorf'
'let's lynch scum instead'
*scum flips on Day 3'
'why is Jim protecting Secretdorf from being lynched???????????? is he scum with Secretdorf??????????????????'

[hector13]

PPE2: Esteemed Imp, just wipe Esteemed Secretdorf’s role in the night. To be perfectly honest I think the worst he’ll be is a third party that exits the game at a particular number of votes, because otherwise it’s game over when he has a plurality as scum, which would be fucked up.

Esteemed hector13
I asked and was told that this may not remove the votes.

So we may have to do this the hard way, and not just leave it in my 'I really asked for something very different' hands.

Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist is hardly going to tell you how Esteemed Secretdorf’s ability works, is he? It’s not a yes, but it’s also not a no.

We know Esteemed Secretdorf is stealing votes, therefore Esteemed Secretdorf - assuming no shenanigans - is not bussing, or merging, or killing, or banishing, or redirecting, which are all the night actions we have issue with.

In much the same way Esteemed Lenglon’s case against Esteemed The Canadian kitten was bullshit on D1 because it was coloured by concerns over post count, your case against Esteemed Secretdorf is bullshit because all you are worried about is their votes, and that colours everything you see about them.

Quite frankly, I don’t believe that Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist is going to completely fuck up the balance of the game by removing town’s only way of getting scum out of the game by giving scum an ability that allows a single scum player to be able to hammer on their own with double figures of players still in the game. That would be fuckin’ bananas.

It would not surprise me one jot that he’s third party and will achieve his wincon when he gets either a certain number of votes or a majority of votes, because anything else which isn’t him being town would be ridiculous.

What does surprise me is my apparent nonchalance in the face of a third-party having so much influence, evidently I have grown a touch.


The only other claims I have concerns about are Esteemed Jim Groovester’s, Esteemed Knightwing64’s, and Esteemed Crystalizedmire’s.

Probably also Esteemed BlackHeartKabal, but that’s just because I don’t understand why they can mark without other action, unless they have been a double actor this entire time and have been marking and blocking the same person until now.

Another concern is their flavour as a ghost race at driver, and the potential for dead players still acting. Maybe that’s his fault?

[Maximum Spin]

I'm probably already forgetting Day 4 claims, but in addition to all this, The Canadian kitten claimed to target Secretdorf and the result was not anti town.

I know, but this sounds like more fun.

[hector13]

Eh.

Esteemed Knightwing64

[Imp]

What does surprise me is my apparent nonchalance in the face of a third-party having so much influence, evidently I have grown a touch.

Again, seems impossible.

But for your reference here is the Total List Of Alignments. I will not include any alignments outside of these, and the win conditions will always be as stated.

Spoiler: Alignments (click to show/hide)

(Always Appears) The Town must eliminate every anti-Town player and have at least one living Town player to win. Anti-Town players are any players that have win conditions directly opposed to the Town. A Mafia player would be anti-Town, but a Survivor would not be.

(Will Probably Appear) The Mafia must eliminate enough players such that the number of living Mafia players equal or outnumber the other living players, and furthermore at least one Mafia player must still be alive. This win condition will only trigger if there are no remaining ways to eliminate the Mafia - so a Town double voter or vigilante killer could obstruct it. The Mafia will always possess a totally private scumchat which any living Mafia may communicate freely in, as well as a factional Mafiakill. In a game with a secondary scumteam, the Mafiakill may kill in a less direct manner, otherwise it will be a straightforwards kill.

(Very Rare, Requires Large Game) The other scumteam may take up any villainous-sounding factional name. They share the same rules and win condition as the Mafia - and yes, they will need to fight the Mafia in order to achieve their win condition, and vice versa, because it turns out this town isn't big enough for two groups of murderers.

All alignments below this line belong to the Third Parties category.

(Common) The Mafia-Ally simply wins when the Mafia players do, without actively being on their team (and thus gaining none of their special privileges).
--(Rare) The Other-Ally could be allied to any of the alignments present. While not being of that alignment, they will win when a player that possesses that alignment wins.

(Uncommon) The Survivor must be alive at the end of a certain Day number, including surviving the execution that Day, in order to win. Depending on game size this number will probably be 3, 4, or 5. If the game ends before that number they will also lose.
--(Rare) The Joint-Survivor exists as a team of two. They have the win condition of the Survivor, but modified - at least one of them must be alive at the selected time.

Any type of Survivor that wins immediately exits the game.

(Uncommon) The Serial Killer wins when every player that is not themselves has been eliminated. If every player including themselves is dead, they will still win. They typically have some form of lethal ability to help accomplish this, though usually not so direct as the Mafia's kill.

(Very Rare, Requires Large Game) The Cult win when the number of living players of their alignment equal or outnumber all non-Cult remaining living players, and there is no longer any way to stop them through kills, vote manipulation, or otherwise. As a courtesy, if there is a Cult, I guarantee you that at the start of the game there will only ever be one Cult player. The Cult player will possess a means of transforming any player that is not scum or Joint-Survivor into another Cult player. This methodology will be limited.

(Rare) The Hunter is opposed to a specific alignment decided by me. As long as that alignment loses, the Hunter wins. If their opposed target is Town then they count as anti-Town, otherwise they do not. The Hunter need not be alive to accomplish this win condition.

Shall we ask directly?
Your impassioned defense of this person is noted, as it previously was.

I wonder what inspection result would have occurred had Esteemed The Canadian Kitten targeted Esteemed Egan_BW, or any painted by that one's power? (underline mine).

Reaoh (Mafia)
You alignment inspect as Town. Players targeted by Tainted Power alignment inspect as your choice of Town, Mafia, Pirate, or Hunter during that Night.

I wonder if the scum have any other ways to hide their alignment from anything but a true inspection in this interesting game.

Let's say we forget the votes.

List five things, quote, show, five things that Esteemed Secretdorf has done in the thread that are pro-town.

Help me, and all of us, see how very townie this person is.  I don't see it.  But I sure see you, Esteemed hector13 and Esteemed Jim Groovester.

[Imp]

EBWOP:  This is what seems impossible.

It would not surprise me one jot that he’s third party and will achieve his wincon when he gets either a certain number of votes or a majority of votes, because anything else which isn’t him being town would be ridiculous.

Also, help me see how it's impossible that he's not town?

Impossible?

Impossible?

Impossible?

It is impossible for this person not to be town?

Amazing.

I'm all ears.  What evidence you got?