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[Elephant Parade]

Hmm, hector13, have you considered giving that auto to sussy players who haven't claimed a protect and demanding they break the restriction each day? It'd narrow down the pool of potential Mafiakill users.

[Maximum Spin]

@Hector:
Sofanthiel did a really swell job explaining why they revived on D2 (they didn't explain anything) so if it was planned it failed royally.

I'm guessing that one may not have a pro on the scumteam, but...

I was given huge reason to explore what a 'kill' meant at start of play.  Loads of questions between me and Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist about several ways to cease to be alive and which count as kills and which count as something else.

Despite seeing (bolding mine)

(Innate, Auto) Eternal Mission: Time flickers backwards whenever your timeline would cease. When you are killed, you revive. When your role or abilities change due to external factors, they return to their previous state. When you gain a Status, you lose it. When you gain or lose votes, your votes reset to their previous count. This ability may trigger any number of times in a given phase, but after the phase is over, it goes on cooldown for one Cycle.

Even then, with my understanding, I still expected the elimination to count as a kill - and I was just told better this game even, though my focus was on 'what if scum vote me out, is that a kill that satisfies the 'Villians Victory' stuff?' and not on reading others' abilities.  Whoops.

So it seems to me a reasonable mistake to make 'I think this won't really kill me, I can't be killed' and 'yeah, that's not a kill' being an issue.  That a pro partner would probably??? catch.  No idea.  But could explain the headlong rush to 'real death' if that is what has happened.

That's actually really reasonable, because d1, sofanthiel made a big thing about my claim of being unkillable being an implicit claim to be unlynchable too. I just ignored that because it was silly and obviously against how that works, but it indicates that sofanthiel was thinking that way, yes.

[Imp]

@Elephant:
Well, we know Imp wasn't informed of that at least because we would probably know about it from the horse's mouth. I would think you would be told but I don't know.

I'd love to see Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist's answer.

I can confirm I requested of that Most Worthy to please inform me if I did break it, and to quote where, so I could better understand the rules I play under and have a better chance to avoid breaking them in the future.

I was not told if that would be done or not - and I didn't ask if that would be done or not - so I really would like to see the answer.  However, the response was part of my education on what good faith effort means in this case, and is a huge part of why I think that if Esteemed Maximum Spin wants it broken, all they need do is go 'loud and proud' about their intent to break it, something like, "This isn't a mistake that I don't call you Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, I am intentionally breaking that ability's restriction."  Or huge, really huge errors.  But if you're showing good faith effort, I think you're just fine.  And I really think you should get the Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist's answer on this, unless you don't want it.

[Elephant Parade]

@Elephant:
Well, we know Imp wasn't informed of that at least because we would probably know about it from the horse's mouth. I would think you would be told but I don't know.

I'd love to see Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist's answer.

I can confirm I requested of that Most Worthy to please inform me if I did break it, and to quote where, so I could better understand the rules I play under and have a better chance to avoid breaking them in the future.

I was not told if that would be done or not - and I didn't ask if that would be done or not - so I really would like to see the answer.  However, the response was part of my education on what good faith effort means in this case, and is a huge part of why I think that if Esteemed Maximum Spin wants it broken, all they need do is go 'loud and proud' about their intent to break it, something like, "This isn't a mistake that I don't call you Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, I am intentionally breaking that ability's restriction."  Or huge, really huge errors.  But if you're showing good faith effort, I think you're just fine.  And I really think you should get the Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist's answer on this, unless you don't want it.

I also think I should get FoU's answer. That's why I asked them.

[Maximum Spin]

A bit-flip caused a thought to cross my mind as I spent the last 8 hours sitting motionless and processing all of the thus-far-available information.

Well, I'm not completely unkillable, but I'm not going to give away the situation in which I can be killed.

What if this is pure, concentrated bluffing?  An attempt to prevent us from lynching Spin by portraying it as a complete waste of our precious votes, perhaps?

This was what I'm talking about, by the way.
Imp, I literally said "Least Esteemed Fallacy" earlier, I think that ship has sailed. I mean, as I said, I did ask, but I think that ship has sailed.

[hector13]

Hmm, hector13, have you considered giving that auto to sussy players who haven't claimed a protect and demanding they break the restriction each day? It'd narrow down the pool of potential Mafiakill users.

My priority in the early game was to try to make obvtown players kill immune, and also try to catch out scum trying to redirect me to make them kill immune after revealing that.

That’s not working though so yeah, that’s pretty much what I’m going to do for the remainder of my time here.

[Imp]

@NQT:
I can understand the unease, but it still feels wrong to vote a player just because of vote accumulation...

Please, would you, and anyone else willing, give me your read on Esteemed Secretdorf's play?

Like go back and evaluate them.  Throw out all the vote stuff, sure, call that null.

What's left to your eyes?  What do you read?

I really want to know this, from as many of you worthies are willing.

I clearly have a choice to make, and it rests heavily on my mind.  I know vigs do their vig thing, but usually they get more town reads about targets of their concern.

I'd love reads... not 'feelings', but actual reads of that one.  What have they done that makes you think they're whatever you think they are?

[Imp]

Imp, I literally said "Least Esteemed Fallacy" earlier, I think that ship has sailed. I mean, as I said, I did ask, but I think that ship has sailed.

Uh-huh.  And maybe you want it that way.

But what about all your other good faith efforts of which there are many, then realization of error and thinking all is lost, so compounding of error.

Hey, it's all your call.  I just wouldn't give up here, unless I wanted to.

Then again, I'm the one wondering if my original role's still out there doing its own thing mostly without me.  I give the Esteemed missing part of me all the support I can, just in case.  Good faith efforts, and all.

[Elephant Parade]

What? Why would a MS of any alignment want to lose protect and kill access for a day?

[hector13]

Esteemed Maximum Spin may have teammates to do those actions instead so it wouldn’t matter if he broke the conditions.

[Elephant Parade]

Esteemed Maximum Spin may have teammates to do those actions instead so it wouldn’t matter if he broke the conditions.

I mean, yes, but he'd be reducing his team's options in exchange for less towncred than he'd get just by claiming a protect each night. It doesn't make sense.

[hector13]

Well, protects aren’t limited to just town teams, whereas willfully foregoing the ability to perform a kill in a game which only anti-town entities seem to have one is going to get more towncred.

Equally so he says he’s protecting people,  but might be doing horrible or otherwise different things, knowing his scum partners aren’t hitting the person he’s acting on, or says he’s acting on.

[Elephant Parade]

Well, protects aren’t limited to just town teams, whereas willfully foregoing the ability to perform a kill in a game which only anti-town entities seem to have one is going to get more towncred.

Equally so he says he’s protecting people,  but might be doing horrible or otherwise different things, knowing his scum partners aren’t hitting the person he’s acting on, or says he’s acting on.

But he seems to be doing it accidentally, not willfully. And given that he's claimed having a protect, losing it in exchange for towncred makes him look more suspicious, not less, because that's a hilariously anti-town move. This angle of attack makes zero sense, hector13.

[hector13]

I’m not attacking, you asked a question, I answered it.

[Elephant Parade]

So you were just explaining the theory, not advocating for it?