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[Imp]

I am now voting for Max.  I'll explain why after the tally, and after I have time to write it out.

Nearly all of D1 has passed.  I see this as our current vote count and voting statistics:

- Maximum Dog (4)- Quarque, sofanthiel, a1s, Imp
- The Canadian "Dog" (0)-
- sofanthiel's D.O.G. (0)-
- Quarque the Dog (0)-
- a1sdog3god (2)- Maximum Spin, The Canadian kitten
- What's Imp Dog (0)-
- Crystalizedogs (0)-
- No Lynch (1)- Crystalizedmire
- No Vote (0)-

~5 hours remaining

Vote switches:
Max switched from sof to a1s.
Qua switched from Imp to Max.
Cry switched from Qua to a1s to Max to No Lynch
TCk switched from Max to unvote to a1s
Imp switched from a1s to Max

Everyone who ever voted for Max, and order they did so: Quarque, sofanthiel, Crystalizedmire, The Canadian kitten, a1s, Imp
Everyone who ever voted for a1s, and order they did so:  Imp, Maximum Spin, The Canadian kitten

Only Imp did not join the rapid votes for Max but switched much later.
Between last vote track and this one, only Cry and TCk have moved from their votes off Max.

[sofanthiel]

Hey, you're not even in what you quoted.

What exactly are you 'partially joking about'?

Well, that's something we can both agree on, haha!  It would be much simpler if town was honest and serious about any and all mechanical assertions: Max claims, X counter-claims--Boom!  Good game, everyone!  I'm also increasingly more worried about a1s's coffee intake (and involvement with the cats), so they're definitely my second choice, but I just don't see the two as a pair; what's the actual connection?

[a1s]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180591.msg8429924#msg8429924

I think that was the only game where I was scum recently (in the last ~5 years.) I rather liked that one, because I had a bit of help with my otherwise inadequate play. I'm clearly not getting that help in this thread, so I'm probably town.

[sofanthiel]

a1s, what are your reads?  Why do you suspect Maximum?

[Imp]

More importantly, I really do think that lynching me could lose the game for town... not out of an overly-inflated sense of my own worth, although I do have that, but because you'd be left at MYLO, and I know how these things usually go when town's confused after a big mistake: the tallest poppies get the knife.

Lynching any town would lead to that.  If Max is town he's not working hard to try and prevent any other townie's D1 lynch.  I presume he's also suggesting I should protect him to protect myself, with that 'tall poppy' comment.  Nah, bro, drink your own whine, I don't want any more.

My reads and brief top reasons:

Max: Confusing as heck, working hard, but playing like scum.

A1s seems playing awful.  A1s, why are you playing like you are?  Do you believe D1 has any value for town, and what should town try to do during D1?  How does this compare to how you are playing and why?  Null read for me, I'd lean scum if there weren't scummier, but this seems awful for town or scum.

CTk was 4th on Max's wagon.  Everyone but Max has voted for Max - at least 1 mafia, or both, voted for Max.  CTk looks to be trying.  I like how they write.  They are moving, words-wise, towards a town win.  However that vote pattern looks likely scummy, and they went from a1s to Max to no vote.  It's hard for scum to have opinions.  Small scum lean.

Mafia tend to get off wagons too.  CTk and Cry (3rd on Max's wagon) got off Max's wagon.  I wonder about that and mention it now, in case I'm not here to mention it D2.

Cry was slow or hesitant to join the Max wagon, then said sof's reasoning convinced Cry.  Cry's reasoning to no elimination also feels weird to me, and it's hard for scum to have opinions.  Cry hasn't really taken any stances this game that I notice.

Sof is showing decent play.  Nearly a null read for me.

Qua is showing decent play.  Nearly a null read for me, but I wonder at the choice to tell me why I read likely town to them.

[Imp]

A clearer list of my top scum reads:

Scummiest:

Max for playing like scum, and having the most informative roleflip.  smh for someone setting up reason to lynch a not-counterclaimed Doc D1.

CTk for vote pattern and feel.

Cry/a1s:  Cry for vote pattern and feel, a1s for playstyle (which could be a null tell)

Sof/Qua: Really null reads for me, if I had to rank them Qua is barely more scummy than Sof for that possible buddy-Imp comment.

Towniest

[Maximum Spin]

Lynching any town would lead to that.  If Max is town he's not working hard to try and prevent any other townie's D1 lynch.  I presume he's also suggesting I should protect him to protect myself, with that 'tall poppy' comment.  Nah, bro, drink your own whine, I don't want any more.

... what? I don't think we speak the same language.

[Quarque]

Qua is showing decent play.  Nearly a null read for me, but I wonder at the choice to tell me why I read likely town to them.

Did that because it is something others probably didn't notice and they might want to take it into account. And as I said, I could be mistaken, because I'm basing this on an old game and your style might have changed. You're hard to read for me otherwise.

[a1s]

A1s Null read for me

I will take this as a compliment. I know we're all trying to project "town", but if people can tell when you're town, they can tell when you're scum and (in my book) you're playing sub-optimally.

[Imp]

and (in my book) you're playing sub-optimally.

Beams  Gonna discuss that book, a1s?  I already asked for how you think we should play.... sorry.  How town should play D1.

[a1s]

I play like I do, because I like the idea of mafia (and I have enjoyed playing IRL quite a bit in my youth) but don't have the stamina to read pages upon pages of people 'reading' each other based on their reads of each other. I guess I don't like Forum mafia as much as I thought I would.

and (in my book) you're playing sub-optimally.

Beams  Gonna discuss that book, a1s?  I already asked for how you think we should play.... sorry.  How town should play D1.

Based on my IRL experience there isn't much for town to do on D1, except identify who the top detective in the group is, and make sure they are not lynched. This clearly carries over to forum mafia, since you've been projecting this like crazy, and it's not to impress PotOS. Interestingly (well not that interestingly, since I already said your play should not depend on whether you're scum or town) this is also the goal of scum- they'll want to kill off the top detective at night. Unless he's one of them (then they're lynched D2.)
There is a third level play here, which is to try and kill the mafia top detective in a game with a doctor and give them a bulletprooof alibi for the rest of the game.

[Quarque]

I guess I don't like Forum mafia as much as I thought I would.

That's what I discovered this game as well. I find it a psychological form of mild torture to be honest. As town it channels my inner asshole and I don't like it. And if I were to play again and roll scum one more time I'd need years of therapy, lol.

Admission, btw: I've been tempted to vote you purely to make sure you've got more time for Torchlight updates

[sofanthiel]

T-40 minutes!

[Maximum Spin]

Lynching any town would lead to that.  If Max is town he's not working hard to try and prevent any other townie's D1 lynch.  I presume he's also suggesting I should protect him to protect myself, with that 'tall poppy' comment.  Nah, bro, drink your own whine, I don't want any more.

... what? I don't think we speak the same language.

Let me expand on this.
No, I don't think you're the town player everyone's going to turn on when I flip. I think that, if you're somehow actually town, you're the idiot who's going to lose town the game.

Here's me: "I think a1s seems the most like mafia, so we should lynch a1s."
And then here's you: "a1s is playing badly and looks scummiest after Max. Also, Max isn't acting like a town player who wants to lynch scum."
I've done nothing but argue to lynch the only player you have a scumread on that isn't based on the wagon for me, or, in other words, the only player you could justify accusing after I flip town, but you just assert as if it's obvious that I'm doing nothing to help town. Of course, I know you won't follow up on a1s after I flip town, you'll go after Quarque for leading you wrong, or come up with some stupid reason to accuse one of the others, banking that you can get the less experienced players to follow you, because you're just following the strategy of listing your partner as your weakest scumread, with no intention of really following through.

I can't read your assertions about me as anything but utterly disingenuous. I know you'll dismiss this as "whining" again, but that's a perfunctory response that can apply to absolutely anything you want. You just say you see whatever you want to. The only thing that holds me back even a fraction is that you were nearly as superficial in the first half of the game when you were apparently town, but, well, I'm voting a1s and not you right now anyway, so I won't worry about it right this second, because I'm convinced on a1s, at least.

[Maximum Spin]

Oh, and, Quarque, you know, you can test your utterly bizarre "a1s and Spin team" theory either way. At least give me a chance?