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[Imp]

Same question for everyone

Does that include me? Serious question, to me it seems like you can assume my answers but maybe you really want to know.

Yep.  I'll save discussing why I'm interested in your answers too for when I give my own reply, but in short, I'm highly interested in yours and everyone elses' answers.

[Imp]

EBWOP:  Max, of course the phrasing of the question's tuned towards everyone but you.

Parts of it you already discussed here and here, but there are parts of the question you didn't discuss (and may not intend to).  But floor is open to you too.

We have some decisions to make.  You're part of them, as an actor, not just an object, and you have a wincon to work towards.  I would love to continue to see you and everyone act towards their wincons, that makes acting towards my wincon much easier for me.

[Quarque]

Man, the silence is getting to me.  Silence during the day rarely helps town, unless we agree we think we know who the last scum to get rid of is and we just need to see the roleflip - and I'm not there at all.

Well I'm there and have been a few days. We found two really likely scum candidates and we don't have to look for a third one.

I felt that a1s and Max were trying to create an impression of mildly sussing each other with a barely suppressed undertone of being best buds from the start. On top of that they've both been as suspicious in my eye as they get individually. I already told you in painful detail what makes me suspect Max and I'm sorry a1s, but if it looks like a cat it might be a cat.

Further evidence, even though CK / Sof / Crystal said little, all three of them seem to play their town metas. For CK and Sof that means being relatively chill and not tense. For Crystal it means being a cute little puppy.

I've stayed silent because you seem hellbent on making things needlessly complicated here. I do not believe that adding more words is always necessarily good for Town. Have you seen this game? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182017.0

If we dig into the endless discussions you enjoy so much, chances are we might get distracted and chase some red herring.

By the way Imp, the fact that you're telling people what to do is what convinced me that you're likely town. That is the one thing I noticed you not doing in the game you linked me where you were scum. Of course that game was long ago, so I could be wrong, it could be that your style evolved. But given the above, I'll chance it.

[Imp]

Well I'm there and have been a few days. We found two really likely scum candidates and we don't have to look for a third one.

I felt that a1s and Max were trying to create an impression of mildly sussing each other with a barely suppressed undertone of being best buds from the start. On top of that they've both been as suspicious in my eye as they get individually. I already told you in painful detail what makes me suspect Max and I'm sorry a1s, but if it looks like a cat it might be a cat.

Further evidence, even though CK / Sof / Crystal said little, all three of them seem to play their town metas. For CK and Sof that means being relatively chill and not tense. For Crystal it means being a cute little puppy.

I've stayed silent because you seem hellbent on making things needlessly complicated here. I do not believe that adding more words is always necessarily good for Town. Have you seen this game? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182017.0

If we dig into the endless discussions you enjoy so much, chances are we might get distracted and chase some red herring.

By the way Imp, the fact that you're telling people what to do is what convinced me that you're likely town. That is the one thing I noticed you not doing in the game you linked me where you were scum. Of course that game was long ago, so I could be wrong, it could be that your style evolved. But given the above, I'll chance it.

Thank you, but what do we do if one or both of those really scummy folk is town?

If we're wrong about both, particularly, this is an agonizing game for town, if that's where we stop.

I hugely appreciate being told of possible scumtells I may have, thank you!  It's hard to see yourself as others might.

And thanks for answering at all.

[sofanthiel]

I'd be willing to bet that, if the first half of the game had gone into n1, sofanthiel and Quarque would have killed me.

Funny that you mention that because, coincidentally, we were planning on doing exactly that!  Oh, and now I wonder whether Quarque's and my chat was cleared after the reset, or if the current scum duo is using the same room and has access to all the logs.

I think you'll have to admit that the motives are clearly weaker for scum. It's drawing a lot of attention for minimal benefit.

Here's an idea: 2 of the 3 role scenarios you listed include the doctor catching onto your very subtle hint and deciding to protect you tonight; a possible use case for everything you've done thus far, including spelling out something you, allegedly, wanted to only be implied, is that now our local town meddog may feel almost obligated to waste their precious first medkit healing mafia, ensuring that you and your buddy can get a kill without our only hope of a no-shot night getting in the way.  This is all assuming you're the catfather, of course.

[Crystalizedmire]

Other question would be
Cry: What do you think about the lack of people counter-claiming dogtor?

It means that A) real Doctor is smart enough to know that counter-claiming to 360 spin's counterclaim is a bad idea.
Or B) Maximum Spin is telling the truth and neither town nor scum counterclaim.

How do you feel about this probability?  How sure are you that Max is scum?  How sure are you that his roleflip will help you play the rest of this game, no matter how he flips?  Are you prepared for the possibility that we lynch doctor D1, or why do you think this isn't going to happen when we lynch Max, if that is done?  Have you prepared yourself for the mental and emotional costs that often come with a D1 lynch of a claimed doctor, as well as the mental and emotional rewards that often come with a D1 lynch of scum that made an outrageous not-counterclaimed doctor claim?

Do you see any use or benefit to town in keeping Max alive past D1, compared to the value of his roleflip or outright removal from play at the close of D1?

To be honest, I'm not sure at all if he is scum or not. Maximum Spin is unlikely to survive the first night in my opinion. If Maximum Spin flips town then Imp would probably be killed on night 1(if they're not mafia) and we're forced into elo. If Maximum Spin is town and doctor, we would be at a disadvantage for the rest of the game. If Maximum Spin is mafia then we would be afforded one miselmination.
You know, when I list out the possibilities like that, No elimination seems like a better option.

[Imp]

You know, when I list out the possibilities like that, No elimination seems like a better option.

Egads.  Generally, no lynch is a pretty weak answer for town.  If we go that way, we go that way.  But please spend some time thinking about if you really think no chance of killing scum D1 is better than the totally random 1/3 chance of killing scum (presuming you know you're not scum, thus the other players are 4 town and 2 scum to you).

While no lynch does mean we go into D2 either with 7 players alive (and have to drink the wifom/speculation of did the doctor save someone, or was there no night kill?  And was it Max-doctor or some other real doctor, who may have protected someone but doesn't know if their target was the would-be night kill, or no night kill...)

Or six players alive, for sure all scum are alive D2.

If we don't lynch, town loses.  It may lose fast or slow.  But it can't win without the lynch.

Our cop can at best find the henchmen.

Take time if you need it, though I hope you are not the kinda person who tunnels and could see only Max so have no idea about anyone else.  But if we don't go with Max dead, let's go with someone lynched.  We have zero chance to kill scum without lynches.

[sofanthiel]

I've stayed silent because you seem hellbent on making things needlessly complicated here. I do not believe that adding more words is always necessarily good for Town.

Well, that's something we can both agree on, haha!  It would be much simpler if town was honest and serious about any and all mechanical assertions: Max claims, X counter-claims--Boom!  Good game, everyone!  I'm also increasingly more worried about a1s's coffee intake (and involvement with the cats), so they're definitely my second choice, but I just don't see the two as a pair; what's the actual connection?

You know, when I list out the possibilities like that, No elimination seems like a better option.

Crystal, if we don't eliminate, scum can shoot at completely random, landing us right back to day 1, except now there's 4 town and 2 mafia.  The only upside for dogs that I can perceive to opt to not lynch is if:
A) The cop knows who to investigate at night, and
B) The doctor knows to defend the cop.

If you can picture any other scenario that would involve a day 1 no-lynch and benefit town, please enlighten me; otherwise, casting an informed vote is optimal here.  If not Max, Crystal, what's your current read on a1s?

[sofanthiel]

What just happened to thread??

[sofanthiel]

Please ignore that!  It was just a page loading error.

[The Canadian kitten]

Just here to say, not good headspace and sleep for me the past few days
But here are more of my thoughts
Pfp as well

1. We should always lynch as town, it's the only killing power we have
2. one would think that a1s would say something and help scumhunt, but so far just drinking coffee I suppose
3. I would prefer to lynch a1s as they promised a scum read on people other than imp or max and never followed up on it.
4. If max doesn't die in the night, I say that would good enough reason for me to lynch them (joke)
5. For sofa: There doesn't need to be a connection, scum would try everything in their power to remain separate  from each other to avoid losing so quickly. For all we know, anyone voting for a1s (oh shoot I'm included as well) could be trying to bus an inactive scum player. Going under the assumption that a1s is scum.

Also me trying to read past games of a1s as scum didn't really yield anything as I can't really figure out what was going on anyway

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180591.msg8429924#msg8429924

Read this since this was a game I found where a1s was scum, recent, and was found with minimal effort by me.

[Quarque]

Well, that's something we can both agree on, haha!  It would be much simpler if town was honest and serious about any and all mechanical assertions: Max claims, X counter-claims--Boom!  Good game, everyone!  I'm also increasingly more worried about a1s's coffee intake (and involvement with the cats), so they're definitely my second choice, but I just don't see the two as a pair; what's the actual connection?

This exchange gave me the vibe.

I heard that a1s is definitely a good dog.

I know you're making fun of me, but that just portrays me as a non-threatening goof.

[Maximum Spin]

We are absolutely not no-lynching. I'd sooner take the lynch than that.

I really should be going to sleep, but, to answer Imp's question: I am, indeed, not at all confident that I'm mafia. I actually think I'm town. More importantly, I really do think that lynching me could lose the game for town... not out of an overly-inflated sense of my own worth, although I do have that, but because you'd be left at MYLO, and I know how these things usually go when town's confused after a big mistake: the tallest poppies get the knife. I'm not at all convinced that my flip will help anyone choose the right target next. I admit I don't have a clearly simulated idea of what will happen after that, but I just don't trust it as a general rule.

That's all you're getting out of me right now. It's almost 3AM.

[sofanthiel]

This exchange gave me the vibe.

I heard that a1s is definitely a good dog.

I know you're making fun of me, but that just portrays me as a non-threatening goof.

I'm only partially joking, by the way.  Maybe it's just my habits from hundreds of hours spent playing another popular social deduction game, but having an unspoken mutual agreement to not provide false information, unless the person doing so already are/can easily be proven to be innocent, or if lying actually helps catch someone else in their dirty lie (and can reasonably be explained to the other participants), seems like it can be a functional strategy.

[Imp]

I'm only partially joking, by the way.

Hey, you're not even in what you quoted.

What exactly are you 'partially joking about'?