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Author Topic: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)  (Read 8644 times)

King Zultan

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #135 on: July 24, 2023, 04:04:02 am »

Re-Education for the Loyalists

Integration for the Neutral

Personally I feel it should be the other way around regardless +1
+1
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Blood_Librarian

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #136 on: July 24, 2023, 04:46:40 am »

Referencing the qutpe below for numbers.
 


I really want to make 125,000 Resources worth of 100 Warhound Titans. Can it be produced with generic Industry? If that is possible and midway to producing the Titans we convert some industry specially for it, do we get a "refund" of some of the resources freed up due to specialization? It might be best to not pay for the project in whole and just go for paying it year to year if we do titan production with generalized production converting to spec.
I know it takes a decade too produce a warhound legion, but is that  10 years of 50,000 production & resources or just 5,000 resources & production per year?

In total I support
Simple Programming
Re-Education for the Loyalists
Re-Education or the Neutral


Quote from: Operation Ascent
Small Bureaucracy costs 10 Resources to implement per 1 million population upfront, and requires an upkeep of 1 Resource per 1 million population:
-Begin Implementation of bureaucracy on
--Ganars V: Population: 42 million
--Xephenus VI Population: 17 million
--Xephenus I Population: 28 million

Resource Extraction Expansion on:
-Xephenus VI +8,000
-Ganars V +7,000
(assuming we can invest in recently conquered stuff)

Xepnhenius I:
-Greatly improve their conditions: [-84,000 Resources upfront, -300 Resources per 1 million in upkeep]

Ganars V:
-Integrate the Loyalist Regiments

Plan does not include votes on the innovation or what to do with soldiers as it is not undivided in thought.


Fires of Industry time.
Reprioritize Specialized Industry for producing both Heavy Infantry and 6 Infantry:1 Recon:1 Aerial:1 Armour structured Forces
Heavy Infantry:  Carapace Armor(100, 10/y m), Heavy Weapons(100, 10/y m), Basic Comms (1, 0y m) x 100 = 20100 Production Capacity for 100 Heavy Infantry Regiments per year. Note that half 10,000 is already spec'd. Produce 100 regiments that each eat 20 resources a year.
The industry of Euclite will be ordered to specialize some of its Heavy Weapons capacity towards this production.
 
For the Second Pattern:
Infantry: Flak Armor (10 1/y m), Light Weapons( 10, 1/y m), Basic Comms (1, 0/y m) x 60 = 1260 Production Capacity for 60 Infantry Regiments that each eat 2 resources per year.
The industry of Ushevan will be ordered to specialize some of its capacity towards this production.

Recon (100, 10/y m) x 10 = 1,000 Production Capacity
The industry of Ganars V will be ordered to specialize some of its capacity towards this production.
Aerial( 1,000, 100/y m) x 10 = 10,000 Production Capacity
The industry of Euclite will be ordered to specialize some of its Heavy Weapons capacity towards this production.
Light Armour (10,000, 1,000/y m) x 10 = 100,000 Production Capacity
The industry of Euclite will be ordered to specialize some of its Heavy Weapons capacity towards this production.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 09:01:51 am by Blood_Librarian »
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #137 on: July 24, 2023, 12:16:22 pm »

Referencing the qutpe below for numbers.
 
I really want to make 125,000 Resources worth of 100 Warhound Titans. Can it be produced with generic Industry? If that is possible and midway to producing the Titans we convert some industry specially for it, do we get a "refund" of some of the resources freed up due to specialization? It might be best to not pay for the project in whole and just go for paying it year to year if we do titan production with generalized production converting to spec.
I know it takes a decade too produce a warhound legion, but is that  10 years of 50,000 production & resources or just 5,000 resources & production per year?
Due to their incredible complexity, Titans require specialised industry and don't get the usual discount for manufacture. In addition, it costs x5 as many Resources to respec industry for Titan manufacture but they are devastating in ground combat. Outside of Heavy Armour, hostile Titans, or orbital supremacy, there's no countering Titans without massive numbers and willingness to take losses. Both qualities the Imperium has in spades. The cost can be paid upfront or at a fraction per year for partial completion that can be paused, but the industrial capacity will still be occupied.

I'm working on the update now but I've been busy this morning so it'll be a few hours before I can post.
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #138 on: July 24, 2023, 05:16:06 pm »

An Interlude, Redux

Infrastructure I mean if we have great infrastructure then everything else such as making Voidships or Healthcare should be much easier in the future TM
By the Emperor, now we have actual options I don't know what to pick.
Ideally something that will both help our rebellion but also have lasting positive effects even after we are snuffed out...
Thinking Machines have so much potential, but I fear the Imperium and the Mechanicus will never consider it. Healthcare is probably the most likely to survive us.
I like this guy.
Simple Programming Working towards an Abominable Intelligence just sounds fun. And probably helps with some of that other stuff once it is up and running.
Infrastructure
Tough choice between healthcare and this
I got the feeling that with great healthcare, it would likely be reversed/restricted for only nobles after we get wiped
Rather prefer something that everyone can continue using like infrastructure
Infrastructure seems like a good thing to go with from the last update.
In total I support
Simple Programming

You are both tempted to grasp at the forbidden but you know a strong wartime economy will make or break the rebellion. "There are many miracles of artifice but they will mean nothing if we can't manufacture them in force. For now, focus on Infrastructure." The mass of bulbs and wires pulses with light as he considers, before a loud *DING* sounds. "Affirmative. Long have my ideas laid in silence. No longer. The assembly lines shall be lengthened, the gears retuned, the workers bolstered..." You give the Fabricator-General a salute. "I wish you luck." Bastalek's vent wooshes as he returns to his typewriter. "May the Omnissiah watch you well."

Euclite is now innovating on Infrastructure.

In the years to come, more efficient mines and manufactorums may prove to be a vital advantage. You just hope the Vox Meritum will have the chance to use them.

End of Interlude
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #139 on: July 24, 2023, 05:18:58 pm »

Also we might need to execute the loyalist soldiers to keep them from being a future problem.
Re-Education for the Loyalists
Integration for the Neutral
I'll support this.
Execute the Loyalist soldiers.
Re-Education for the Neutral.

Re-Education for the Loyalists
Integration for the Neutral
Personally I feel it should be the other way around regardless +1
+1
In total I support
Re-Education for the Loyalists
Re-Education or the Neutral

The situation with the soldiers of Xephenus VI and Ganars V merits much thought. You and your qualified, competent advisors discuss the matter in great detail, and eventually decide to Process and Integrate former Imperial regiments that are willing to see reason. As for the stubborn, surviving Loyalists, many feel they should be preemptively purged but in the end, a more moderate approach wins out and going forward, they will be Re-Educated. Some think a similar approach would be best for Neutral, if trained, noncombatants but concerns of cost warrant an Integration oriented approach. Starting with disarming them. Your administrative headquarters on Ushevan are too far and the regime change on Xephenus VI too recent to make moves toward reclaiming its Loyalist holdout, but it is only a matter of time.

I vote for naming the bureaucracy Grand Unified Secured Territories Oversight (G.U.S.T.O).
That went much better than I expected.
I think we should Greatly Improve the Conditions on Xephenus I, and Integrate the Loyalist Regiments on Ganars V, and repair the Orbital platforms.
Also, we should absolutely expand Resource Extraction across these new worlds (8,000 on Xephenus VI, and 7,000 on Ganars V) as well as roll out the new Bureau for Meritorious Conduct to everywhere.
We can also in theory support another 174 Regiments across our new planets, for a cost of 52,200 upfront, plus 5,220 upkeep in total to outfit them like our current Ushevan Regiments. We should think about how many we want as mobile heavy Infantry, versus others. (Recon, Aerial, Artillery, Light Armour...). At the absolute minimum we want to give them all a year of training, preferably five, plus the specialist training they'd need for other roles.
We could attempt to follow a pattern of say, 6 Infantry:1 Recon:1 Aerial:1 Armour? We could probably justify Flak and Light Weapons for those specialist units, which will reduce costs slightly.
+1
I concur with all of your first points. I'm putting my votes towards Greatly improve Xephenius 1's conditions, Process and Integrate Loyalist Troops
I am of the opinion that we should commit to respeccing the indotech now rather than later, and that we should do it in a pattern of the ilitarized patterns of military force we are making. At the very least, speccing into carapiece armor, transports, radios so that we can sustainably produce the prime heavy weapons mobile infantry is easiest way to extend our arterial bleed of resources that will come when we need to bang out millions of soldiers and save something like 20% or whatever, it'll pay for itself!
cut
You should include light comms at 1 resource per regiment as well, I think.
It might even be good to assume that we need to have the ability to bang out the 237,660 Production worth of this army template every year, and respec our industry to get it done cheaper form our heavy weapons spec'd manufactorums, as well as converting some manufactorum space for titans n maybe a shipyard?
Bureau for Meritorious Conduct
+1 to the name
Quote from: Operation Ascent
Small Bureaucracy costs 10 Resources to implement per 1 million population upfront, and requires an upkeep of 1 Resource per 1 million population:
-Begin Implementation of bureaucracy on
--Ganars V: Population: 42 million
--Xephenus VI Population: 17 million
--Xephenus I Population: 28 million
Resource Extraction Expansion on:
-Xephenus VI +8,000
-Ganars V +7,000
(assuming we can invest in recently conquered stuff)
Xepnhenius I:
-Greatly improve their conditions: [-84,000 Resources upfront, -300 Resources per 1 million in upkeep]
Ganars V:
-Integrate the Loyalist Regiments
Plan does not include votes on the innovation or what to do with soldiers as it is not undivided in thought.

Fires of Industry time.
Reprioritize Specialized Industry for producing both Heavy Infantry and 6 Infantry:1 Recon:1 Aerial:1 Armour structured Forces
Heavy Infantry:  Carapace Armor(100, 10/y m), Heavy Weapons(100, 10/y m), Basic Comms (1, 0y m) x 100 = 20100 Production Capacity for 100 Heavy Infantry Regiments per year. Note that half 10,000 is already spec'd. Produce 100 regiments that each eat 20 resources a year.
The industry of Euclite will be ordered to specialize some of its Heavy Weapons capacity towards this production.
 
For the Second Pattern:
Infantry: Flak Armor (10 1/y m), Light Weapons( 10, 1/y m), Basic Comms (1, 0/y m) x 60 = 1260 Production Capacity for 60 Infantry Regiments that each eat 2 resources per year.
The industry of Ushevan will be ordered to specialize some of its capacity towards this production.
Recon (100, 10/y m) x 10 = 1,000 Production Capacity
The industry of Ganars V will be ordered to specialize some of its capacity towards this production.
Aerial( 1,000, 100/y m) x 10 = 10,000 Production Capacity
The industry of Euclite will be ordered to specialize some of its Heavy Weapons capacity towards this production.
Light Armour (10,000, 1,000/y m) x 10 = 100,000 Production Capacity
The industry of Euclite will be ordered to specialize some of its Heavy Weapons capacity towards this production.

When such questions are resolved, you turn your attention to matters of administration. The Vox Meritum's territorial size has more than doubled and with an increase of incoming material comes an increased demand for an efficient and reliable logistics system to support it. To that end, you authorise efforts to maximise Resource Extraction on Xephenus VI and Ganars V. The Bureau of Meritorious Conduct is no less necessary as a means of encouraging the ideals of Meritocracy and is implemented as swiftly as possible, no matter the cost.

Xephenus I rose against the Imperium of its own accord and the valour of its men must be rewarded. You and your advisors unanimously agree to Greatly Improve their conditions, even at great cost. Their access to rare compounds will more than pay for itself in a very short time. In addition, thoughts of home may have regiments raised from the molten rock fighting harder in the future. There is some debate over introducing combined forces consisting of Recon, Aerial, Artillery, and Armoured regiments supporting larger numbers of Mobile Infantry, and of refitting many of the manufactorums across Vox Meritum space to facilitate this but the council is unable to reach a consensus on the details, so you postpone the decision for now.

3 Years Since Rebellion (YSR)

You've yet to receive any news of the battles for Ophus and Lendypso and how they went, or if they've even happened, is anyone's guess. All that you can do is focus on administrating as you have.

Spoiler: Ongoing Projects (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Vox Meritum Production (click to show/hide)

You note with immense satisfaction that Ushevan has almost reached its full potential and that Xephenus VI and Ganars V have taken steps toward improving their Resource Extraction. At the same time, the Vox Meritum's expenses are substantial and show few signs of lessening any time soon. You've already done as much as you can to improve the movement's income and are confident that, despite the costs, your investments will pay dividends in the future. Conquering the rest of the Euclite Subsector will be a help, particularly Ophus and Rana's Pearl. After that will come the Sector itself, and then the Imperium.

Speaking of the Imperium, conditions have stabilised on Xephenus VI and Ganars V, and Loyalists in the former are still under siege. If you want to exploit Xephenus VI to the fullest, they must he remove, one way another. Both planet's populations have been stripped clean of volunteers and it'll be longer before new masses of men are ready to fight, (10 YSR) but conscription is quite possible. That may be unnecessary, as Xephenus I is overflowing with hardened miners desperate to escape their planet for foreign battlefields.

What are your plans for this year?

A few of your most trusted advisors have brought a private concern to your attention. While the recent Loyalist counter-rebellions on Xephenus VI and Ganars V were easily contained and crushed, respectively, they represent a dire threat to the Vox Meritum. That is to say, the possibility of Loyalist spies and saboteurs hiding amongst the population and infiltrating elements of the military, or worse, the Bureau of Meritorious Conduct. For now, critical organisations can be trusted as they've been sourced from the uprising on Ushevan, but this won't be feasible forever.

You've all heard rumours of the Inquisition and if even half of them are real, it's inevitable some of their agents will be in the Sector. The wrong words in the wrong ears and knives in the dark could be deadlier than any city-shattering macrocannon. If all goes well, you won't need to worry but it may be best to prepare, just in case.

What precautions should the Vox Meritum take against hidden Loyalists? Choose as many or as few as you think are necessary. These aren't the only possibilities, only a few of the most obvious. Alternative suggestions are always encouraged.

Compartmentalisation: To prevent information from falling into the wrong hands, it must be restricted. Everyone will receive only what's needed to fulfill their rank's duties, on a case-by-case basis. This will limit flexibility in rapidly changing situations but will also significantly lessen the amount of damage infiltrators can do.
Ideological Screening: The masses will be subjected to frequent and random tests of loyalty to the Vox Meritum over the Imperium. A lack of willingness to participate or reflexive hostility will help serve to out Loyalists.
Secret Police: They will be a counter to the Inquisition, a mysterious agency dedicated to rooting out counter-seditious sentiments before they can do any harm. Only the most fanatically Meritocratic men and women will be counted among their number.
Propaganda: The masses must receive constant messages of the Vox Meritum's superiority, of its victories, and its impending triumph against the Imperium. Its impact will be subtle at first but over long periods of time, should contribute to widespread zeal that will be that much more difficult to subvert.
Coded Language: Low and High Gothic and ciphers related to them are trivial to crack, but a constantly changing litany of new words and new terminology will serve to improve operational security. Eventually, the population may move on from the Imperium's lingua franca entirely.
Surveillance: Strict curfews, movement licenses, and recording devices, both hidden and obvious, everywhere possible. This won't be popular but it will be safer and make subtle hostiles' lives that much harder.
All of the Above: The micromanaged totalitarianism of Ushevan will be vastly more personal than the Imperium under Terra could consistently accomplish, but it will be for a meritorious cause. Initially, morale will plummet but a century from now, it will be the only thing the people have ever known.
None: The Vox Meritum is so remote that you doubt the Inquisition is a plausible threat, let alone one worth panicking over. If silent Loyalists conspiring against you turn out to be a problem, you'll solve it then, but right now you have more immediate concerns.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 07:41:38 pm by Ardent Debater »
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Fluffe9911

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #140 on: July 24, 2023, 07:28:14 pm »

Well let me review each decision real quick from my POV
Compartmentalisation: Effective in the sense that whoever is working against us would have to infiltrate multiple facets of society to do any lasting damage but as it points out this kinda screws us over a bit as well and make our already pretty taxing bureaucracy even more so while also lowering our soldier autonomy.

Ideological Screening: Good for rooting out the zealots and the stupid but very ineffective against anyone with decent intellect and willing to suck up their pride for even a minute.

Secret Police: Soviet Russia.jpg is debatably effective but depending on how we go about it will most likely foster a culture of paranoia which probably will hurt things a bit in the long run. Also expect our bureaucracy to get a bit bogged down from false reports from people with vendettas as well as people being punished who probably really shouldn't be.

Propaganda: Can backfire hard if the people being exposed to the propaganda end up being forced to face a harsh reality otherwise not a terrible option if you don't care about going a bit authoritarian. Also should note while it most likely will decrease the amount of people willing to work against us the ones left are most likely going to be zealots and contrarians who will just be enraged by the propaganda's existence and more likely to take extreme actions without more moderate counterparts to keep them in check a cornered rat and all that. Combine with Secret Police for that true USSR larp.

Coded Language: Will further separate ourselves from the Imperium in the long run but otherwise genuinely don't see any major issues with this. Probably the best option for security without going authoritarian.

Surveillance: Effective but very authoritarian will make the deviants easier to deal with but also create deviants as well so ehhhhhh.

All of the Above: Literally 1984.jpg we somehow managed to become even more authoritarian than the Imperium in atleast 1 regard great work.

None: Very shortsighted WILL backfire in the long term.

Anyway I vote Coded Language
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 07:31:11 pm by Fluffe9911 »
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The Canadian kitten

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #141 on: July 24, 2023, 07:49:26 pm »

Coded Language as well
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Funk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #142 on: July 24, 2023, 09:19:32 pm »

Coded Language.
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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EuchreJack

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #143 on: July 25, 2023, 12:32:40 am »

Coded Language

Kashyyk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #144 on: July 25, 2023, 12:54:03 am »

Coded Language requires everyone to keep up with it to stay effective, and likely increases the cost/take over time for newly liberated planets as we'll have to get them up to speed on the language.

My vote is for Propaganda and Secret Police. One will cover the masses who might be accidentally led astray whilst the other deals with active hostile influences. Propaganda is also called out as being more effective over time, and we've got about fifty years to work with.
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Maxine

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #145 on: July 25, 2023, 04:17:05 am »

Coded Language requires everyone to keep up with it to stay effective, and likely increases the cost/take over time for newly liberated planets as we'll have to get them up to speed on the language.

My vote is for Propaganda and Secret Police. One will cover the masses who might be accidentally led astray whilst the other deals with active hostile influences. Propaganda is also called out as being more effective over time, and we've got about fifty years to work with.
+1
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King Zultan

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #146 on: July 25, 2023, 04:40:51 am »

Coded Language requires everyone to keep up with it to stay effective, and likely increases the cost/take over time for newly liberated planets as we'll have to get them up to speed on the language.

My vote is for Propaganda and Secret Police. One will cover the masses who might be accidentally led astray whilst the other deals with active hostile influences. Propaganda is also called out as being more effective over time, and we've got about fifty years to work with.
+1
+1
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Funk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #147 on: July 25, 2023, 02:50:58 pm »

Coded Language requires everyone to keep up with it to stay effective, and likely increases the cost/take over time for newly liberated planets as we'll have to get them up to speed on the language.

My vote is for Propaganda and Secret Police. One will cover the masses who might be accidentally led astray whilst the other deals with active hostile influences. Propaganda is also called out as being more effective over time, and we've got about fifty years to work with.
+1
+1
+1
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG

Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #148 on: July 25, 2023, 06:23:42 pm »

Since there's nearly a tie between Coded Language and Propaganda and Secret Police and they aren't mutually exclusive, do you want to go with all three precautions? Coded Language is largely centered in sensitive military or industrial organisations and consists of regularly changing passwords, alternate meanings to normal words, and phrases that have nothing to do with what they're referring to. The long-term, lingual effects will filter out into planetary populations over time and leave language in a state of flux. Propaganda isn't remotely sophisticated without psychological research into it but constant repetition of the same core concepts may sway the ideals of a significant minority, if not a slight majority of the population, and by default, is mainly public posters and vox transmissions. Secret Police is self-explanatory but how it works is up to you, and could be anything from the worst interpretations of the Stasi to a particularly secretive and hands-on volunteer neighbourhood watch program.

Besides countering the threat of the Imperium's Inquisition, is there anything you'd like to manufacture or do for this year?
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Fluffe9911

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #149 on: July 25, 2023, 06:40:02 pm »

Since there's nearly a tie between Coded Language and Propaganda and Secret Police and they aren't mutually exclusive, do you want to go with all three precautions? Coded Language is largely centered in sensitive military or industrial organisations and consists of regularly changing passwords, alternate meanings to normal words, and phrases that have nothing to do with what they're referring to. The long-term, lingual effects will filter out into planetary populations over time and leave language in a state of flux. Propaganda isn't remotely sophisticated without psychological research into it but constant repetition of the same core concepts may sway the ideals of a significant minority, if not a slight majority of the population, and by default, is mainly public posters and vox transmissions. Secret Police is self-explanatory but how it works is up to you, and could be anything from the worst interpretations of the Stasi to a particularly secretive and hands-on volunteer neighbourhood watch program.
I guess if there is some leeway in how hard/how far we push/take certain things I'm fine with all three.
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