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Author Topic: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)  (Read 8597 times)

Kashyyk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2023, 05:07:25 am »

I'm concerned about making our command structure to easy to deduce, as that is asking for our officers to get targeted. For parade uniform though, I'm absolutely on board for dapper hats and boots.

Soldiers should all know who their direct superiors are anyway, so they won't need fancy signifiers to remind them.
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UristMcRiley

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2023, 05:18:36 am »

I'm concerned about making our command structure to easy to deduce, as that is asking for our officers to get targeted. For parade uniform though, I'm absolutely on board for dapper hats and boots.

Soldiers should all know who their direct superiors are anyway, so they won't need fancy signifiers to remind them.

The issue with that is in a high casualty environment, a average soldier, trooper, whatever we decide to call our grunts may end up with all of his direct chain of command as casualties. In a situation like this having identifying markings for officers and NCO’s will make it easier for the lower enlisted to identify who they should be reporting to in the event they find themselves separated from there assigned leaders either via casualties or fog of war.

This also has me thinking what is the status of our communications equipment does every soldier have some form of commo or is it restricted to RTO’s and leadership ranks. If the latter is the case we should seek to correct it as soon as possible
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2023, 02:24:53 pm »

Legions are made of 5 regiments of 1100, split in to 4 company's of 270, each with 4 platoons of 50, made of 5 squads of 10 and the left over 20 are support.
This is a plenty viable force distribution. The squads are extremely large, which slightly reduces tactical versatility but slightly increases it in other ways. Attaching support to the company level instead of the squad level is an interesting choice.

A camouflaged Jumpsuit with cross bandoleers, black Jump boots and studded bracers with studded fingerless gloves.
Higher ranks get bigger taller boots leading to bucket top boots for regiment officers and thigh high stilt platform high heels for generals.
You can definitely delineate rank by boot-size, although if the Inquisition catches on that the top-brass are all wearing thigh high stilt platform heels they're likely to assume heresy is involved. Of course, they're already going to assume you're heretics due to rebelling against the Imperium of Man but that would solidify it.

as for uniform, I would like something simple but distinctive, but what about the idea of if a guardsman does good, they are allowed to customize their uniform? just spitballing
Troops should be well rewarded with medals, skull badges and freedom from regulations for there rewards.
Freedom from regulations and uniform customisability as a reward for competence are both very possible.

What about instead of taller boots we give the officers taller hats, with every rank up their hat grows taller, then when we have a massive army our highest ranking officers will have hats that can be measured in kilometers or miles.
You can also definitely delineate rank by hat-size and this is more popular with the Imperium, or at least, the Ecclessiarchy, but that alongside the Vox Meritum's secondary objective of doing away with the Imperial Cult may alarm them further. The human neck can only support so much weight, however, and sufficiently massive hats will require cybernetics or genemodding to prop up, as well as being closer to tent-weaving than tailouring.

I'm concerned about making our command structure to easy to deduce, as that is asking for our officers to get targeted. For parade uniform though, I'm absolutely on board for dapper hats and boots.

Soldiers should all know who their direct superiors are anyway, so they won't need fancy signifiers to remind them.
Extremely distinct uniforms are likelier to be targeted by enemy fire but if they're separated by larger boots and hats they're also likelier to be away from the frontline. At a certain point, it's slightly impractical but there are many regiments of the Imperial Guard that get by with slightly impractical uniforms. No matter what you go with, the fighting legionnaires (name-pending) massed on the field will be capable of fighting.

The issue with that is in a high casualty environment, a average soldier, trooper, whatever we decide to call our grunts may end up with all of his direct chain of command as casualties. In a situation like this having identifying markings for officers and NCO’s will make it easier for the lower enlisted to identify who they should be reporting to in the event they find themselves separated from there assigned leaders either via casualties or fog of war.

This also has me thinking what is the status of our communications equipment does every soldier have some form of commo or is it restricted to RTO’s and leadership ranks. If the latter is the case we should seek to correct it as soon as possible
The Vox Meritum's forces do have access to comms but like the Imperial Guard, long-distance communications are limited to the large, cumbersome but resilient vox casters held by specialists. If you wanted to add smaller, short-distance communications like a walkie-talkie, that'd be possible and make men less likely to be disoriented in certain types of terrain, but also likelier to have their comms intercepted against technologically-savvy foes. Light Comms would require an additional 1 Resources per regiment with no additional upkeep but Heavy Comms, adding a man-portable vox caster to each squad, would require 10 Resources per regiment and increase upkeep by 1. Due to your force's guerilla roots, they already have a fluid coded language not present elsewhere in the Imperium though it could likely be "decoded" through torture fairly quickly.

As for a flag, what about a hand/multiple hands reaching for a star? The hand is the people/citzens, and the star represents the concept of the merits or goal or whatever clearly too tired to expand on this. but the flag should give the sense of reaching for the stars being totally possible in our society.

EDIT: add a cybernetic hand to the flag, gotta show appreciation for those cog bois for supporting us
I'm going to give you all a couple of more days to decide on the details of everything, but so far the hands reaching for the star flag is in the lead, as it's the only suggestion. Likewise for the semi-customisable jumpsuit+bandoleers, with increasingly large boots and hats for rank. What colour are the flag and your uniforms? Your troops may be wearing camo but there are many regiments that don't, and don't have any distinction between parade uniforms and active uniforms.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2023, 09:39:15 pm by Ardent Debater »
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Funk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2023, 05:56:04 pm »

I don't think that 10 is a large squad, the  Imperial Guard has 10 man infantry squads.
 
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What colour are the flag and your uniforms? Your troops may be wearing camo but there are many regiments that don't, and don't have any distinction between parade uniforms and active uniforms.

We should have a red and blue flag with silver trim, the pole topper should be a gold cybernetic hand reaching upwards to a big glass star.

Parade Uniforms

Well bigger boots an shiny leather ones with shiny buckles to please Slaanesh make trainees hate there CO's dress inspections, white silk  jodhpur trousers, tailored leather jackets with spiked shoulder pads.
Then capes maybe? And fancy basket hilted swords.
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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UristMcRiley

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2023, 07:20:05 pm »

While I have little opinion on the uniform I support Canadian kittens proposal for the flag, someone should probably start a master vote box to make Ardents job a little easier. However I’m regards to upgrading our units communication equipment I think the light upgrade is certainly worthwhile and I think they’re is a argument for the heavier upgrade as well

Light communication upgrade for all troop's(1): UristMcRiley
“Canadians” Flag proposal (1): UristMcRiley
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #95 on: July 17, 2023, 08:27:26 pm »

I don't think that 10 is a large squad, the  Imperial Guard has 10 man infantry squads.
It isn't a very large squad in setting, I was referring in relation to their guerilla warfare origins. It's a bit numerous for a rapid, mobile force but with the casualties they'll probably be taking, that's not at all a bad thing. They are EXTREMELY well-equipped for their degree of skill. They'll likely hold their own and then some against their number in basic Imperial Guard conscript regiments. Against equally well-off, fanatical Imperial Stormtroopers... that remains to be seen but with luck, you won't be fighting them in significant numbers for some time.

While I have little opinion on the uniform I support Canadian kittens proposal for the flag, someone should probably start a master vote box to make Ardents job a little easier. However I’m regards to upgrading our units communication equipment I think the light upgrade is certainly worthwhile and I think they’re is a argument for the heavier upgrade as well

Light communication upgrade for all troop's(1): UristMcRiley
“Canadians” Flag proposal (1): UristMcRiley
I would appreciate that, as I've been keeping a tally manually so far.
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King Zultan

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2023, 02:38:09 am »

Quote from: Vote Box
Light communication upgrade for all troop's(2): UristMcRiley, King Zultan
“Canadians” Flag proposal (2): UristMcRiley, King Zultan
Uniforms with taller hats for officers (1): King Zultan
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Funk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2023, 03:39:20 am »

Quote from: Vote Box
Light communication upgrade for all troop's(3): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk
“Canadians” Flag proposal (3): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk
Uniforms with taller hats for (1): King Zultan
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

Unofficial slogan of Bay 12 Games.  

Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG

Blood_Librarian

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2023, 04:58:21 am »

Proposal: When we have large numbers regiments (tens or hundreds), and they get organized into battalions or whatever the next step higher of such a thing, independent attache's, or the regiment sized fighting groups to these battalions, they should have a label attached to them, a formalization of the informal term, "Thug".
As an example, we currently have mainly Skitarri regiments with 2 or 3 trained fighter Militias with them, if we up organize all those Skiitarri Regiments into a Battalion, then it would be a Skiitarri Battalion with 2/3 Trained Militia Thugs. It could also occur if we have a batallion of Infantry with a Attache of Land Raiders.

Quote from: Vote Box
Light communication upgrade for all troop's(4): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk, Blood_Librarian
“Canadians” Flag proposal (4): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk, Blood_Librarian
Uniforms with taller hats for (2): King Zultan, Blood_Librarian
Thug label Formalization (1): Blood Librarian
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UristMcRiley

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2023, 07:22:47 am »

I am against the thug system, I feel that we would only lower the combat capabilities of the skitarii by trying to integrate in mortal soldiers with them. Not only do the skitarii traditionally fight different, they’re augmetics  also make them far more capable then a mortal. Thus any sort of attached mortal forces would just slow down skitarii units.

Somewhat unrelatedly I believe in most systems of military organization a regiment would be composed of battalions or squadrons and then several regiments would make up a brigade and several brigades a division.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 07:42:01 am by UristMcRiley »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #100 on: July 18, 2023, 08:23:09 am »

As a general doctrine, I would support one that pushes a combined arms approach at the most granular level. Specifically, I imagine each Platoon to be a mix of Infantry squads, heavy weapons teams and Armour, with the regiment having a few dedicated Artillery companies attached. Such a regiment wouldn't be able to face a specialist Imperial Guard regiment in its element, but would allow us to be very flexible.
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UristMcRiley

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2023, 09:54:49 am »

As a general doctrine, I would support one that pushes a combined arms approach at the most granular level. Specifically, I imagine each Platoon to be a mix of Infantry squads, heavy weapons teams and Armour, with the regiment having a few dedicated Artillery companies attached. Such a regiment wouldn't be able to face a specialist Imperial Guard regiment in its element, but would allow us to be very flexible.

The problem with as thoroughly integrated combined arms operation as you are suggesting is command and control. Asking a junior officer or senior non-com to effectively command a singular body of infantry, armor, artillery etc… is hard enough leading each of those individual formations requires a degree of specialized skills. Asking the same junior officer or senior non-com to coordinate a squad of infantry, a supporting armored vehicle and call for artillery fire is a lot.

An example of how the American military handles this problem. Say you have a mechanized infantry platoon that consists of three squads of infantry divided between four ifv’s. The leadership element for this platoon consists of a junior officer, a senior non-com, three non-coms for each infantry squad and four Junior non-com’s to serve as vehicle commanders when the infantry dismounts. Even with this relatively high proportion of leaders in the platoon it wouldn’t be unusual for a specifically trained forward observer to accompany the platoon to handle the artillery and air support call ins.

My point with this whole ramble is that without a very talented and trained class of leadership which I doubt we have heavily integrated combined arms units don’t become a blessing they become a burden
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The Canadian kitten

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2023, 10:04:58 am »

Quote from: Vote Box
Light communication upgrade for all troop's(5): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk, Blood_Librarian, TCK
“Canadians” Flag proposal (5): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk, Blood_Librarian, TCK
Uniforms with taller hats for (3): King Zultan, Blood_Librarian, TCK
Thug label Formalization (1): Blood Librarian

Let our enemies quake in fear of our massive hats!
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Blood_Librarian

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2023, 11:06:46 am »

I am against the thug system, I feel that we would only lower the combat capabilities of the skitarii by trying to integrate in mortal soldiers with them. Not only do the skitarii traditionally fight different, they’re augmetics  also make them far more capable then a mortal. Thus any sort of attached mortal forces would just slow down skitarii units.

Somewhat unrelatedly I believe in most systems of military organization a regiment would be composed of battalions or squadrons and then several regiments would make up a brigade and several brigades a division.


I was going for more of a sort of system where if we have a large number of our smallest buildable "unit" (regiments, in this case), that when they form up to a organizational structure one level higher, (Batallions in this case, I think.), and are then deployed with a small number of regiments that are different then the larger group, they get the label [Thug of(Larger group)]. I cannot imagine the horrific process of trying to do a combined arms approach under this system outside of making those units and deploying them together.
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if you want something wacky
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Fluffe9911

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2023, 02:54:46 pm »

Quote from: Vote Box
Light communication upgrade for all troop's(5): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk, Blood_Librarian, TCK, Fluffe9911
“Canadians” Flag proposal (5): UristMcRiley, King Zultan, Funk, Blood_Librarian, TCK, Fluffe9911
Uniforms with taller hats for (4): King Zultan, Blood_Librarian, TCK, Fluffe9911
Thug label Formalization (1): Blood Librarian
Big Hats Big Wins!
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