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Author Topic: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)  (Read 8614 times)

Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2023, 10:52:31 am »

A word of warning: This upcoming update is a doozy, but future updates will most likely be smaller as the mechanics themselves are fairly simple. If you have any questions or unusual plans, don't hesitate to ask.
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2023, 10:52:56 am »

Strip them of their titles, that’s in the spirit of meritocracy.

The rebellion is in support of the God Emperor. In my opinion it will makes rallying other planets easier than if we are neutral or in support of the Omnissiah. Keeping the Imperial faith may gives us a small chance to turn the rebellion into a civil war similar to the Age of Apostasy, in time. Plus we could claim to reform the Imperium rather than going full secessionist.

Vox Meritum is fine.
+1 to this
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1

The surviving nobility of Ushevan shall be stripped of their titles and where applicable, tried in a fair interim court for their crimes. This solidifies your rebellion as an existential threat to the nobility, though not necessarily a lethal one. The rebellion’s leadership consider this a wise and fair decision. While a few would have preferred more violent retribution, they cannot disagree with the principles.

As for your view on religion, that much is clear. The rebellion is in support of the God Emperor and seeks to oust the Ecclesiarchy that has grown fat and cruel on the backs of Mankind. It is secondary to your true ideological aims but so long as the Ecclessiarchy continues to oversee the incompetent stratification of our glorious species, there can be no true universal Meritocracy. Therefore, it must be removed and replaced.

The rebellion will be called the Vox Meritum in a clear, simple High Gothic statement of your ideals. This is unanimously agreed upon as excellent. Now that everything is taken care of, you turn your attention to your strategic position.


This crude pictogram is the finest the Euclite Mechanicus can provide, and serves to summarize the Warp routes of the Euclite Subsector. A straight line indicates a stable Warp route which usually takes 2-6 months to traverse, while a squiggly line indicates an unstable Warp route which usually takes 1-12 months to traverse. The Euclite Subsector is notably stable and has only one unstable Warp route, going from the Xephenus system to the Ophus system. This may be a benefit or a detriment to the Vox Meritum going forward.

Below is the known information on the varying planets of the Euclite Subsector.


Needless to say, you have an overwhelming, if localised advantage. Even alone, your fleet would be capable of dominating the Subsector quite handily but with Forge World Euclite’s industrial support, you see no major obstacles to your swift domination of these eight stars. Of course, you aren’t concerned about the Subsector. Once the wider Sector realises your treachery, it will retaliate in force and the Imperium itself will follow. It will take time for news of the rebellion to reach the Segmentum Pacificus capital Hydraphur and time for a coordinated reprisal to arrive. The Euclite Mechanicus estimates the Vox Meritum has fifty Terran years before an Imperial incursion, possibly less, hopefully more.

You consider the Vox Meritum’s current industrial capacity and the resource requirements of its various armed forces.

Spoiler: Resource Explanation (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Vox Meritum Production (click to show/hide)

In short, Euclite has enough resources stockpiled to keep the Vox Meritum at full military and industrial capacity for roughly four Terran years, give or take. The Forge World is heavily specialised toward Heavy Weapons production and will require some time to retool, if deemed necessary. Previously, Euclite received a steady stream of minerals from across the Sector but now that it has pledged to the Vox Meritum, that has been cutoff and income is reduced to what can be extracted locally. At the moment, that isn’t much. The Fabricator-Locum recommends that we prioritise resource income and conquer the Euclite Subsector as rapidly as possible.

Euclite is willing to allow the provisional use of its Titan Legion and of one-fourth of its sitting Skitarii garrison, 500 regiments, for this purpose, though the Forge World is unwilling to lose any more of its defences and HIGHLY recommends that you are careful not to receive any more Titan casualties than absolutely necessary. As the current leader of the Vox Meritum, the future of the rebellion is yours to decide. First of all, you decide to keep track of time with a new calendar tracking the Years Since Rebellion rather than keeping the Imperium’s time system. After that, you do some strategizing and make your first moves.

What is your initial plan?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2023, 03:10:51 am by Ardent Debater »
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Glass

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2023, 12:03:03 pm »

Before anything else, a question: do tanks fall under Heavy Weapons, or should they be their own category? (I think autocannons are a tank weapon rather than infantry equipment.)

Anyway, Ganars V should be reasonably easy to gain support on due to the wanton cruelty of its rulers, but we’d need to establish the mining setup ourselves. Getting the Xenephus system may be harder, but we will have orbital supremacy. Lendypso would probably be difficult to take, but if we take out their stellar infrastructure, we may be able to just ignore them for the time being. Dana’s Pearl may be another place where we can get the people’s support, as might be Ophus, though that one’s less likely. Notably, though Ophus is also a chokepoint for anybody trying to get to any of the other systems I’ve mentioned. Finally, for Sebaustia, I wouldn’t be surprised if we could just get them to surrender due to their lack of strength, while Tabos is simultaneously somewhat a mystery box but also not terribly important yet.

Overall, due to the subsector’s structure, I think it would make sense to split the fleet in two, with two main routes:
Group 1: Xephenus, Ophus, Sebaustia
Group 2: Genara, Lendypso (analyze the situation when we get there to see if we can plausibly turn the planet or just pass them over), Rana's Pearl
Each group should have 1 of the trained militia and 4 of the standard militia. Group 1, as it will be facing more naval resistance, should take the extra ship when splitting each type between the groups.

Also, let’s give all of our regiments Flak Armor, for 100 total industrial output. We don’t want to lose people just because we didn’t give them good equipment when we have an entire Forgeworld working with us. The lighter flak should also be better suited to our soldiers’ guerrilla style than the heavier carapace.

Does anybody have any objections or things to add?
EDIT: Wait, of course, we need to assign the AdMech forces. ...I will wait until later when I get home from work for that.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2023, 12:27:07 pm by Glass »
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2023, 12:14:49 pm »

Before anything else, a question: do tanks fall under Heavy Weapons, or should they be their own category? (I think autocannons are a tank weapon rather than infantry equipment.)

Tanks fall under their own production category, the Resouce cost of which differs by the variety being manufactured. Many autocannons are tank weapons but there are smaller crew-served variants, which Euclite is focused on.

Spoiler: This is the average (click to show/hide)

The Vox Meritum is in a strange position as it's practically swimming in otherwise rare, valuable Heavy Weapons but has almost no artillery, air, or tank support. At full bore, Euclite could equip every Regiment in this Sector with much to spare, but that's vastly more than necessary for your current militia forces. If desired, Euclite could begin manufacture of standardised tank variants but they require a heavy Resource investment and tank regiments take time to raise.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2023, 12:22:14 pm by Ardent Debater »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2023, 12:28:14 pm »

You're not kidding about being a hefty turn.

Don't forget we also have 500 Skitarii Regiments (we have the option of Heavy and Rad weapons) and the Titans to deploy. Makes sense to split them down the middle, with 125 Heavy and 125 Rad equipped Skitarii to each task force. I'm not sure if the Titan Legion can be split, as that might not work for their Logistics tail, but uf they can there are even numbers of both Titan types. If not, I'd propose they get sent with Group 1 to ensure rapid access to Resources.

Euclite is also tooled towards Heavy Weapons almost exclusively, so we need to think about how much of that we should reallocate.

With our ridiculous Industry to Manpower ratio, I'm inclined to set all 10 Ushevan Regiments to Heavy Weapons and Carapace Armour, this will cost an extra 1,800 Industry to produce and 172/year to maintain.

I think it'd be worth looking into the costs of various Air and Ground vehicle production, as well as producing (or at least ensuring we can repair/refit) Voidships.
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Glass

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2023, 12:30:08 pm »

Before anything else, a question: do tanks fall under Heavy Weapons, or should they be their own category? (I think autocannons are a tank weapon rather than infantry equipment.)

Tanks fall under their own production category, the Resouce cost of which differs by the variety being manufactured. Many autocannons are tank weapons but there are smaller crew-served variants, which Euclite is focused on.

Spoiler: This is the average (click to show/hide)

The Vox Meritum is in a strange position as it's practically swimming in otherwise rare, valuable Heavy Weapons but has almost no artillery, air, or tank support. At full bore, Euclite could equip every Regiment in this Sector with much to spare, but that's vastly more than necessary for your current militia forces. If desired, Euclite could begin manufacture of standardised tank variants but they require a heavy Resource investment and tank regiments take time to raise.
I take it, then, that vehicles of any sort require specialized production rather than allowing generalized production. Fair enough.

Probably best to get at least some of them in production now, though, so that they can be trained with early. What’s the cost of building and maintaining them?

Euclite is also tooled towards Heavy Weapons almost exclusively, so we need to think about how much of that we should reallocate.
Unfortunate thing about that, reallocating industry is both expensive and time-consuming. Reallocating even just 1000 of it would cost 1000 resources and, more importantly, 10 months of time; switching a more-useful 10,000 would be 100 months, or 8 and a third years.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2023, 12:33:28 pm by Glass »
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2023, 12:47:47 pm »

You're not kidding about being a hefty turn.

Don't forget we also have 500 Skitarii Regiments (we have the option of Heavy and Rad weapons) and the Titans to deploy. Makes sense to split them down the middle, with 125 Heavy and 125 Rad equipped Skitarii to each task force. I'm not sure if the Titan Legion can be split, as that might not work for their Logistics tail, but uf they can there are even numbers of both Titan types. If not, I'd propose they get sent with Group 1 to ensure rapid access to Resources.

Euclite is also tooled towards Heavy Weapons almost exclusively, so we need to think about how much of that we should reallocate.

With our ridiculous Industry to Manpower ratio, I'm inclined to set all 10 Ushevan Regiments to Heavy Weapons and Carapace Armour, this will cost an extra 1,800 Industry to produce and 172/year to maintain.

I think it'd be worth looking into the costs of various Air and Ground vehicle production, as well as producing (or at least ensuring we can repair/refit) Voidships.

It was a very substantial turn. Euclite insists that the Titan Legion remain a cohesive whole for the sake of the machine spirits but where and how they're assigned is vastly more flexible. I'm at work right now, so I'll list the vehicle production as well as Euclite's voidship capabilites when I get on my lunch break in a few hours.


I take it, then, that vehicles of any sort require specialized production rather than allowing generalized production. Fair enough.

Probably best to get at least some of them in production now, though, so that they can be trained with early. What’s the cost of building and maintaining them?

Euclite is also tooled towards Heavy Weapons almost exclusively, so we need to think about how much of that we should reallocate.
Unfortunate thing about that, reallocating industry is both expensive and time-consuming. Reallocating even just 1000 of it would cost 1000 resources and, more importantly, 10 months of time; switching a more-useful 10,000 would be 100 months, or 8 and a third years.

That was a typo, my apologies. It's one month per 1,000 points of Industrial Output to shift a planet's industrial specialty. It is expensive and time-consuming but retrofitting a substantial amount of the Forge World's industry would only require a few decades, rather than centuries. I'll have a list of the vehicles Euclite is capable of manufacturing, as well as their production and maintenance costs soon.

Edit: Most vehicles don't specifically require specialised manufacturing but their cost is substantial enough that the discount is incredibly useful.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2023, 12:55:58 pm by Ardent Debater »
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2023, 05:19:56 pm »


Spoiler'd wall-of-text. I figure abstracting vehicles and maintenance to the regimental level is the easiest way of keeping track of it without needing the Adeptus Administratum’s help myself.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2023, 05:39:37 pm by Ardent Debater »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2023, 05:07:28 am »

For ease of reference, I've collected all these costs/times/ratios together.

Spoiler: Numbers and stuff (click to show/hide)

I've left off Orbital Yards and Voidships for now, but we definitely need to start those soon, so that we are ready for the inevitable response in half a century.

Now, some of those numbers sound a bit weird (10 years for professional soldiers?), but this is 40k. Throwing untrained, ill-equipped conscripts into the meat grinder is definitely on brand.

We have 201,000 General Industrial Capacity (plus far more Heavy Weapons than we'll ever need). I propose we hold our forces for a month, and upgrade our Regiments to Heavy/Carapace mobile Infantry. That'll require 800 for Heavy Weapons, 1,000 for Carapace Armour and 1,000 for Recon Vehicles, for 2,800 Resources total. That will substantially increase the survivability of our forces and cover a Mobility role that the Skitarii do not provide.

Meanwhile, we can support an additional 4,000 Resource extraction on Ushevan. A drop in the bucket compared to our Resource demands, but there's no point leaving it to waste. It'll cost 400 Resources to build the necessary infrastructure.

So. To put that in an easily parsable format:

Quote
Spend 400 Resources to Build 4,000 Resource Extraction on Ushevan
Put the 8 units of Light Weaponry in Storage and replace with 8 units of Heavy Weapons (800 resources). Then build 10 units of Carapace Armour and 10 units of Recon Vehicles for 2,000 Resources, upgrading our Heavy Infantry to Mechanized and Carapace Armoured.

Then, form two task forces:
Taskforce Ahrsa
 - 125 Rad Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 125 Heavy Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 5 Ushevan Regiments (1 Trained Militia, 4 Basic Militia)
 - 1 Titan Legion
 - 3 Cobra Destroyers
 - 5 Sword-class Frigates
 - 2 Falchion-class Frigates
 - 5 Firestorm-class Frigates
 - 2 Lunar-Class Cruisers

Taskforce Bairkan
 - 125 Rad Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 125 Heavy Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 5 Ushevan Regiments (1 Trained Militia, 4 Basic Militia)
 - 3 Cobra Destroyers
 - 4 Sword-class Frigates
 - 3 Falchion-class Frigates
 - 4 Firestorm-class Frigates
 - 1 Lunar-class Cruiser


Send Taskforce Ahrsa to the Xephenus system. Their Orbital presence is minor, and should be easily dealt with. Xephenus I is likely to capitulate the moment we neutralise the Orbital Platform. Xephenus VI might need some additional encouragement, hence the Titans and slightly larger complement of ships.

Meanwhile, send Taskforce Bairkan to the Ganars system. The single colonised planet there will hopefully surrender when offered the choice of Orbital bombardment vs a life where people are not executed at random.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 08:09:12 am by Kashyyk »
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Glass

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2023, 07:41:10 am »

Yep, I like that plan. Thanks, Kashyyk.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2023, 09:26:43 am »

For ease of reference, I've collected all these costs/times/ratios together.

Spoiler: Numbers and stuff (click to show/hide)

Thank you. I think I'm going to work on a PDF of the mechanics for future convenience later on, once the Vox Meritum's naval and ground forces have gotten into combat. Again, the mechanics aren't complicated but they'll hopefully be fun: A somewhat simplified ripoff of Battlefleet Gothic and an abstracted opposed roll system with regiments, their health/remaining numbers, and possible traits from their regimental culture, tactics, or experience. Most of that will be automated in the background (recorded in quotes) but where Ignatius is at, you'll be able to fight more directly. Turns will be yearly, with possible subturns by month depending on what's happening within a year.

In many cases, in other systems, you'll have to delegate operations to one of several possible commanders, who'll approach problems according to their personality and you'll only hear about the outcome after the fact. That's to simulate the "fog of war" that comes out of 40k's difficulty getting information across the Warp and massive distances involved. As the Vox Meritum is only contained to a single Sector, it has an advantage over the Imperium in that it has a vastly shorter reach for its supply chain and command apparatus to cover. For important battles or, if you'd prefer that to the fog of war just in general, we'll do a PoV switch from Ignatius to the other commander in question.

Now, some of those numbers sound a bit weird (10 years for professional soldiers?), but this is 40k. Throwing untrained, ill-equipped conscripts into the meat grinder is definitely on brand.

The weirdness is definitely intentional, as it's from an IC 40k standpoint. Trained Militia are perfectly competent if not exceptional soldiers but Trained Infantry is the (usual, ideal) minimum for Imperial Guardsmen and that's Ignatius and by extension the Vox Meritum's reference point of what infantry is. I'm going to wait for a couple of more hours for anyone that's lurking to weigh in if they'd like to. I notice the thread's activity dropped off after the last update and hope I didn't alienate anyone with the crunch. There'll be a fair amount of societal/ethical choices as time goes on, things come up, and the Vox Meritum decides on how to handle them. If the rebellion survives long enough, it will eventually develop a distinct, non-Imperium identity and that'll be fun to see evolve.
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Ixarys

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2023, 10:41:43 am »


So. To put that in an easily parsable format:

Quote
Spend 400 Resources to Build 4,000 Resource Extraction on Ushevan
Put the 8 units of Light Weaponry in Storage and replace with 8 units of Heavy Weapons (800 resources). Then build 10 units of Carapace Armour and 10 units of Recon Vehicles for 2,000 Resources, upgrading our Heavy Infantry to Mechanized and Carapace Armoured.

Then, form two task forces:
Taskforce Ahrsa
 - 125 Rad Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 125 Heavy Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 5 Ushevan Regiments (1 Trained Militia, 4 Basic Militia)
 - 1 Titan Legion
 - 3 Cobra Destroyers
 - 5 Sword-class Frigates
 - 2 Falchion-class Frigates
 - 5 Firestorm-class Frigates
 - 2 Lunar-Class Cruisers

Taskforce Bairkan
 - 125 Rad Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 125 Heavy Weapon Skitarii Regiments
 - 5 Ushevan Regiments (1 Trained Militia, 4 Basic Militia)
 - 3 Cobra Destroyers
 - 4 Sword-class Frigates
 - 3 Falchion-class Frigates
 - 4 Firestorm-class Frigates
 - 1 Lunar-class Cruiser


Send Taskforce Ahrsa to the Xephenus system. Their Orbital presence is minor, and should be easily dealt with. Xephenus I is likely to capitulate the moment we neutralise the Orbital Platform. Xephenus VI might need some additional encouragement, hence the Titans and slightly larger complement of ships.

Meanwhile, send Taskforce Bairkan to the Ganars system. The single colonised planet there will hopefully surrender when offered the choice of Orbital bombardment vs a life where people are not executed at random.

That’s a lot of logistic stuff for me, so I’m just going to say I like the idea and add a +1 to it
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chubby2man

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2023, 11:17:19 am »

+1 Kashyyk’s plan as well.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2023, 11:59:10 am »

[...]Turns will be yearly, with possible subturns by month depending on what's happening within a year.[...]

Well I've only really suggested a month of economic actions there. We might as well maximise our Industrial Capacity on Ushevan as well, and refit most of that 800k of Heavy Weapons specced Industrial Capacity too. We should've asked Bastalek Krake if it would be possible to build a second Legion of Titans. Not that we can afford the upkeep right now.

A million Industrial Capacity would be enough to equip one hundred Regiments with Light Armour simultaneously, so I honestly don't think we'll need any specialised production any time soon. Not sure what y'all thoughts are?
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Ardent Debater

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Re: Doomed and Futile Rebellion (40k SG)
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2023, 12:24:02 pm »

I should clarify because my original wording was unclear, and apologise for any confusion. Every 1 point of Resource Extraction and 1 point of Industrial Output requires 1 Resource invested, at a 1:1 ratio, and every 100 points of either takes one month to establish. You can simultaneously increase Resource Extraction and Industrial Output but Ushevan's entire economy is barely noticeable compared to Euclite's generalised production. Already established Industrial Output costs 1:1 Resources to respec but is much more efficient, and only takes one month per 1,000 Industrial Output.

To reach Ushevan's capacity at an additional +4,000 Resource Extraction will take 40 months, or 3.3 years. Returns on Resource investment are annual so after two years it's a profit but those Resources could've gone into manufacturing or maintaining material. As you have a Forge World with immense quantities in storage, the cost is negligible, but it is there and on rereading my explanation I realised the even ratio wasn't very clear. I'm going to go ahead with the voted plan at the higher cost of 4,000 Resources.

On a side-note, I randomly generated the Subsector, its planets, and its Warp routes and you got extremely lucky with the position of Xephenus I and its type of mining. If you can get industry running full-tilt in time to prepare and are strategic or lucky enough to disable or commandeer the two other major battlegroups patrolling the wider Sector, the Imperium will likely have a miserable time retaking Vox Meritum space. Of course, if you manage to fight off the first invasion, they'll send another, stronger, then another, then another, etc. The better you do, the more attention you'll get. All you can do is strengthen yourself as much as possible, as quickly as possible, and try to minimise losses.

[...]Turns will be yearly, with possible subturns by month depending on what's happening within a year.[...]

Well I've only really suggested a month of economic actions there. We might as well maximise our Industrial Capacity on Ushevan as well, and refit most of that 800k of Heavy Weapons specced Industrial Capacity too. We should've asked Bastalek Krake if it would be possible to build a second Legion of Titans. Not that we can afford the upkeep right now.

A million Industrial Capacity would be enough to equip one hundred Regiments with Light Armour simultaneously, so I honestly don't think we'll need any specialised production any time soon. Not sure what y'all thoughts are?

Euclite doesn't have the STCs or facilities for major Titan manufacture, which does require specialised production, but the Fabricator-Locum knows they have the STC for Warhounds and is in theory capable of manufacturing them, at a cost of 1,250 Resources upfront and an upkeep of 125 Resources and a decade to forge, per Titan, with a recommended minimum of 50 per Legion. This would require at least 1,250 Industrial Output respec'd to Titan manufacture, which doesn't grant the usual discount and costs x5 as many Resources to properly anoint. It is absolutely worth every last bolt, wire, and can of WD 40 sacred unguents however.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 12:26:32 pm by Ardent Debater »
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