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[ToonyMan]

Did NQT slip knowing something he shouldn't? I didn't catch that.

It seems to be Toaster and then Web pointing this out. Let me see how I feel about this.

After re-reading I don't really understand.

1. Max claims they can't be converted.
2. Web replies saying they also can't be converted.
3. NQT votes Web for claiming they can't be converted combined with their fishy miller claim.
4. Toaster goes "got'em" and votes NQT.
5. Webadict theorizes that NQT maybe knows something he shouldn't (Cult can't be converted by other Cult?) and votes him.
6. NQT responds defending themselves from Web's accusation, saying they're going to assume from now that cult leaders can't convert one another.

I don't see anything here that's definitive.

I think NQT's response to Webadict is the oddest part, but Webadict's theory is really stretching it.

I would rate Webadict's vote a 4/10 at best. Toaster's vote is like a 2/10.

With someone else this might be reasonable, but preposterous D1 fakeclaims are standard webadict. I'd say there's a 75% chance he walks back on it.

I can almost guarantee this.

Jim, should you vote Toony for that post?

Tric you literally vote me every game I'm town and think I'm town in games I'm not.

[EuchreJack]

Huh… interesting.

Knightwing and EuchreJack I’ll extend the same question to you:

What is better: killing a known cultist or using that info to find the cult leader?

It depends how much time you have until end of day.  Early day, you use that info to hunt for the cult leader. Near end of day, just kill the fucking cultist you know.

[EuchreJack]

I don't think Web's alignment is going to change, regardless of what that might be now.

As for me, I unfortunately know that I am Town 4 Life.  The one game that I played in which my wincon changed, it was painfully obvious, and I doubt I could do any better with less time and a changing methodology of playing.

Also...my current double vote on those who vote me won't work if people won't keep their vote on me.  I'm reasonably sure the two brave (and probably town) souls that tried moved their votes.

You know what you call a player that is so afraid of getting two votes on them that they won't try to eliminate someone they allegedly suspect? Scum

[EuchreJack]

I currently like NQT too much to vote them.

As for Jim....Jimnosis

Egan_BW is an active squirrelboi...so town.
Tric is still town.
Web confuses me, since he has said multiple times he HATES the current meta of claiming miller. But he gets special party favors, so I'm going to ignore him.
Toaster is town because NJW is always wrong about his Day 1 scum read.
NJW typically looks scummy when town, so null.
Maximum Spin...Free Boon for voting.  Town should claim.
Knightwing is null
Toony is null and a great recruit target.  Toony would also claim to be a great recruit target if cult, ergo definitely null.

Well, I seem to have run out of suspects. And no votecount to help me decide. (Really, I should vote Fallacy)

[EuchreJack]

PFP
Toaster, I'm just poking some bee hives here, playing casual on my phone. Not sure what about that is cult leaderish.

Are you perhaps aware that Cult has the inability to be converted by a different Cult?

I have a little more faith in Fallacy's ability to make a game than this. I'm going to assume for now that cult leaders can't convert one another. C'mon.

Obviously as NJW points out, you're a known liar— but here at least I don't see the town rationale for lying about this either. This isn't quite as bad as mafia-ally-Web but its not far off.

Hm, the anger seeps through this.  I'm not really sure how to take that, since it is rare for NQT.

[Toaster]

Okay I'm going to go ahead and lay this out now since I don't think sitting on it any longer is worth anything.

How NQT Slipped

Spin and Web (and a couple others) claim that, like me, they can't be converted.  This is a smart thing to claim.  Web understands that and spells this out.  All well and good.

NQT clearly does not get this.

I don't get the town rationale for claiming that, Web. If I were unflippable, I'd want to tank as many cult conversion attempts as possible. This plus the miller claim after recent discussions on the forum thet millers are never fake claimed gives us good reason to suspect Webadict here.

NQT is too good and too experienced to not know what's going on here.  Not only does it slip past him, but he attacks Web for doing it and also for one of the flimsiest meta reasons I've ever seen; basically amounting to Gambler's Fallacy here.  It's weak beyond weak.

If 6 players hammered Max, given the generally more cautious nature of scum, we might expect 4+ town players to get a boon. Depending on how potent a boon is, that could be a very good thing. I'm going to see how Max acts for the rest of the day, but if there is going to be a Max elimination then I'll be in on it.

His interest in getting something for himself is suspicious here as well, especially when he [urlhttp://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181625.msg8475190#msg8475190]parks his vote on Spin[/url] for no other reason than "gonna get that cheddar."

This isn't Smooth Analytical NQT.  This is Scum Self Serving NQT wants to live to D2 NQT.

[webadict]

Toaster's vote is like a 2/10.

That Toaster vote is very much in line with Town Toaster, so its rating hardly matters to me.

Don't get me wrong, though, Toaster isn't necessarily right for going after NQT.  But, Toaster is Town here.  I'd do a gotcha on him and reveal it, but I like just saying things are true and leaving it at that.

But Toaster's logic is undeniable, and I like the case on NQT, so I'm not against it.

Especially since NQT immediately memed a vote onto Maximum Spin.  Either NQT is doing something funky or he's really having a lot of silly fun.

Anyway, I'll let everyone know that I can kill people every other Night starting with NJW.

God this is gonna be funny when the game ends and everything I claimed is true.

[Maximum Spin]

You may notice from my side that I don't like voting people for awhile on D1, like, at all.

This is because I don't think a vote matters when you vote someone else in your very next post.

I completely agree with this. That's why I never change my vote if I can help it.

People who are town:
Me, Tric, Toaster, Egan, probably Web, probably Toony, maybe Jack, obviously Jim.
Therefore I should vote... well, look at that, my vote's already in the right place. Funny how that happens.

[Maximum Spin]

Anyway, I'll let everyone know that I can kill people every other Night starting with NJW.

Not me, though.

[NJW2000]

NJW2000:

Ok, reread my last post again Toaster, specifically the first sentence.

Sooooo totally different definitions of shitposting.  Got it.

You were the only player ONLY SHITPOSTING. Everyone else was shitposting and contributing, you produced a post with nothing of worth in it when other people were claiming, assessing the setup, trying to catch other people out by sounding out information privilege, etc.

This is why I think you're quite likely scum. With the possible exception of the NQT thing, you're more interested in defending yourself and producing fluff than actually reading carefully and advancing town.

Hm...  I don't see it.  Personally, it seems like every other Town player missed out on WIFOMing the Cult by not claim Recruit immunity.  Gonna be honest:  Big mistake on their part.  The best part is that I think claiming it is better when Max and Toony aren't Cult Leaders, which is what I believe here.

There's no WIFOM if everyone claims it, nimrod.


Unvote, I was just on Max in the hope that other people would do it and he'd get angry. He didn't, NAI. Boon thing wasn't me.

I guess people haven't given this basic thought, but if there are 2 cults that are presently single-person, catching scum D1 increases our odds of winning by 50% instantaneously. So please don't vote Max for cookies and women, this is literally the worst time to do this. EGAN.


I really don't know how to feel about Toaster. I mean, look at this.

Okay I'm going to go ahead and lay this out now since I don't think sitting on it any longer is worth anything.

How NQT Slipped

Spin and Web (and a couple others) claim that, like me, they can't be converted.  This is a smart thing to claim...
...
NQT clearly does not get this.
...
NQT is too good and too experienced to not know what's going on here.  Not only does it slip past him, but he attacks Web for doing it and also for one of the flimsiest meta reasons I've ever seen; basically amounting to Gambler's Fallacy here.  It's weak beyond weak.
...
His interest in getting something for himself is suspicious here as well, especially when he [urlhttp://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181625.msg8475190#msg8475190]parks his vote on Spin[/url] for no other reason than "gonna get that cheddar."
...
This isn't Smooth Analytical NQT.  This is Scum Self Serving NQT wants to live to D2 NQT.

Like, it's a big post with a bolded title, links, quotes, a "slip". And what does it come down to? NQT failed to understand something Web was doing, then he placed an odd vote on Max while openly admitting he was doing it for profit, and that this isn't in his meta. That's not a slip, a slip lets on that someone has privileged information or openly reveals that someone is scum. This is barely a case, it's just presented like one. Buzzfeed-grade clickbait.

I disagree with the last point too, this play really isn't in NQT's meta as town or scum, but town!NQT does make dumb or plodding errors and scum!NQT really knows when to STFU, so if anything this is town!NQT. I've been mafia with him though, so maybe Toaster just doesn't know his meta.

Readslist later once I'm done with work and can go through this properly, but for now, Toaster. For massively overstating a "case" that was pretty clear to everyone, arguing with my FOS instead of actually reading what I wrote or trying to resolve confusion, and the rest of his activity being low-value fluff.

[Jim Groovester]

Jimnosis.

I can’t do this again

Jim

TricMagic who are you going to convert tonight?

Oh... Let me check..

ruffles pages of a spellbook. around 200 to 400.

On that note, Jimnosis has been applied, prepare to be swarmed.

Why are people weak to taunting like this

Nah it's not Jim.  We're Masons.

I am indeed Masons with webadict, and therefore nonconvertible, which is a great kind of townie but a less desirable automobile.

Makes sense. I guess if Jim's scum then he's mafia with Wuba. Since wuba claimed miller-mason.

I know webadict was lying about being masons with Jim, because I am masons with both web and Jim separately.

I am indeed Masons with Maximum Spin, and therefore nonconvertible, which is a great kind of townie but a less desirable automobile.

God this is gonna be funny when the game ends and everything I claimed is true.

Do I want to say this is town webadict? Kind of.

But this is obviously town webadict since he and I are masons.

EganBW: how are you going to decide who you vote today?

Depends on how seriously I decide to take this. For The moment I'm leaning towards just paying loose attention to the thread and figuring out who is scummy. I could make a high effort list again, but that's work and I'll just get converted anyway. If I want to win as town, which I do, then it's meta to look like an unappealing ally.

This is a pretty town opinion.

There are hats. This I know.

Will we have no rest until a hat tyrant is finally declared?

At a meta guess, Jim is Cult, Toony is Cult. Jim is being quite audacious in their actions, which isn't normal unless he's playing up the meme so we don't look too deeply into his actions once he actually starts playing. Toony is Cult because Hats.

These are bad reads.

Jim, should you vote Toony for that post?

I don't know what you're expecting me to do here especially since you're daring me to vote with you when you think I'm cult which I don't really understand.

If 6 players hammered Max, given the generally more cautious nature of scum, we might expect 4+ town players to get a boon. Depending on how potent a boon is, that could be a very good thing. I'm going to see how Max acts for the rest of the day, but if there is going to be a Max elimination then I'll be in on it.

:\

I feel like you're responsible for doing this to Max and are talking up its benefits to convince people to vote him.

Tell me what the boons do so that I know it's worth my while to vote Max (not that I will though).

Fun fact: I get TWO votes against anyone that votes me.
So, unlike my normal play style, I'm gonna hammer hard on anyone that votes me (and that I think is Scummy).

howisthatdifferentfromnormal

You know what you call a player that is so afraid of getting two votes on them that they won't try to eliminate someone they allegedly suspect? Scum

You're not even suspicious, why are you expecting people to vote you?

'if you dont vote me you are scum but if you do vote me you are scum and i will vote you harder'

This is a very EuchreJack game plan.

I don't get the town rationale for claiming that, Web. If I were unflippable, I'd want to tank as many cult conversion attempts as possible. This plus the miller claim after recent discussions on the forum thet millers are never fake claimed gives us good reason to suspect Webadict here.

NQT is too good and too experienced to not know what's going on here.  Not only does it slip past him, but he attacks Web for doing it and also for one of the flimsiest meta reasons I've ever seen; basically amounting to Gambler's Fallacy here.  It's weak beyond weak.

Not that it's right or wrong of him but notquitethere is spreading his vote around a lot this game and casting votes he may not necessarily be following through on. His vote on webadict is one of these.

It's not a tactic I particularly like but it is one being deliberately employed.

Toaster case

I don't really agree with Toaster's case on notquitethere but I don't think it's worth voting Toaster over.



Egan_BW and EuchreJack are probably town. I lean town on TricMagic. Knightwing64 should do something substantive instead of complaining about Jimnosis.

Jimnosis.

notquitethere, Toaster, and NJW2000 are kind of weird.

ToonyMan and webadict and Maximum Spin are fine. Either of them could easily be town or the cult leader since they would be currently unteamed and motivated to find other cult. My gut wants to say that Max and webadict are likelier to be town though.

Anyways I actually lied about the Jimnosis ziggurat doing nothing. When it reaches its zenith, apotheJimnosis happens and I take over moderating the game. Once I do that I'm ending the game with my victory, and I can have other people win too depending on how much I like them at that given moment. But the Jimnosis ziggurat can't reach its zenith with only me building it.

[Jim Groovester]

Jimnosis.

[notquitethere]

Good morning.

I'm very well able to admit I wasn't being smooth and analytical, I was being, uh, loose and chaotic. It gave people a read on me, and prompted some content so I don't think that was a waste. I think the silly images I made might attest to the spirit I was moving in. But I want to push back on two things specifically Toaster said:

1. I genuinely don't agree with Web, if anything it just seems like he's being the self-serving "don't bother targeting me" type. I don't see how this is a matter of correct play, though I get the value in general of WIFOMing scum (hell I'm doing it myself). Having slept on it, I don't think it's that strongly alignment indicative. I was following a line of flight there.
2. The miller thing wasn't a gamblers fallacy thing, you definitely just misunderstood my point. Recently there has been a bunch of people pointing out (maybe it was Web maybe Shakerag, idk) that claiming miller is a good way to be seen as confirmed town. Web's the kind of player to fake claim milleras scum. That's all I'm saying there.

[notquitethere]

EuchreJack, I can't work out the deal with these threats you're making to double omgus people who vote you? Is that helpful?


NJW

town!NQT does make dumb or plodding errors

Rude. I made a couple of mistakes in a very complicated game where I was juggling five different power sets and posting restrictions. I get no credit for the masses of right information I figure out and judgements I make. I'm not completely slapdash. Oh well, mustn't grumble... perhaps it's better to be underestimated.

[webadict]

I love fakeclaiming Miller because everyone should fakeclaim Miller until it becomes less of a Town confirmation, but until that happens, I'm claiming Miller regardless of whether I'm Miller or not Miller.