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[Lenglon]

Max: Why should I think FoU is scum? I think Tric is 3p and that it's a waste to lynch a 3p, but I don't see what's wrong with FoU. as I said in my question to Jim, to me FoU seems very town.

FoU: I don't have a particular problem with a Tric lynch, but I do think it's wasteful. if hypothedically we lynched Tric and he flipped 3p as I expect will happen, what do you think we'd get from that?

[TricMagic]

To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.

In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.

Hmmm.
Jack. If you aren't scum, come vote Fallacy with me. I may end up regretting saying this, but I don't think Toaster is likely to be scum. His read may be dumb, but it's consistent with what I've seen from him as town before: uncomfortable with deviations from a rigid idea of Proper Mafia meta. I don't really believe he is using this as a replacement for scumhunting, but rather that he genuinely believes he is scumhunting.
Also, you too, Toony. Come over to the, uh, non-Fallacious side!

Is it bad that I've seen Tric OMGUS so many times that I consider it a nulltell in Tric's case? It's stupid and unhelpful, but if you do it every time...

That's not bad, that's just "being right". If he doesn't do it, that's when you worry.

I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.

Nin.

[FallacyofUrist]

Hmmm.
Jack. If you aren't scum, come vote Fallacy with me. I may end up regretting saying this, but I don't think Toaster is likely to be scum. His read may be dumb, but it's consistent with what I've seen from him as town before: uncomfortable with deviations from a rigid idea of Proper Mafia meta. I don't really believe he is using this as a replacement for scumhunting, but rather that he genuinely believes he is scumhunting.

The thing is, he's not even trying, really. That wouldn't be suspect (knowing Tric), except for the fact that I've seen him actually try to hunt, before. He's not town. I can't look at his behavior and think town, even given Tric's abnormal practices.

I would have just labeled him as third party (see earlier), except people are defending him in really odd ways, starting with Jim.

I mean, I doubt I'll win this fight, really, but again. Fear shouldn't stop people from attempting cases.

FoU: I don't have a particular problem with a Tric lynch, but I do think it's wasteful. if hypothedically we lynched Tric and he flipped 3p as I expect will happen, what do you think we'd get from that?

And I'm currently expecting he's more likely to be scum than third party, and more likely to be third party than town.

If he was third party? Okay, a scum execution would have been better. But it A, provides a lot of information as a result of the sheer shitstorm I have detonated by daring to vote for the most holy dragon of hats TricMagic, and B, at least it's not town. And that's still an important point. When it's so easy to RVS to death town players, given the lack of information Day 1 has, a third party vote is still a win, even if it's less of one.

If he is town of course then I'm just going to die on Day 2 for daring to execute the most holy dragon of hats TricMagic, but there's not much I can do about that.

[TricMagic]

Max: Why should I think FoU is scum? I think Tric is 3p and that it's a waste to lynch a 3p, but I don't see what's wrong with FoU. as I said in my question to Jim, to me FoU seems very town.

FoU: I don't have a particular problem with a Tric lynch, but I do think it's wasteful. if hypothedically we lynched Tric and he flipped 3p as I expect will happen, what do you think we'd get from that?

Absolutely nothing. Good day sir!

drinks from the chocolate river. If I flip as town, mafia wins. If I flip as TP, mafia wins. If I flip as mafia, mafia wins. A better plan for me would be to cause as much Chaos as possible before Time's up. Looks at thread title. In any case, there isn't a scenario where this is good for town. And shooting me is worse, since I currently have no powers. They just don't want their hats taken and given to someone actually deserving of them.


So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.

[FallacyofUrist]

To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.

In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.

I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.

This is all garbage.

Jack is a poor execution target for scum since he has two votes, and at least for Day 1, for town too because town would prefer to keep a double voter in their pocket than to remove them willy-nilly.

There are enough mafia players here willing to go for a gambit that would make enough sense from your perspective that I don't think this disqualifies you from being scum. Taking refuge in audacity won't save you. (But your partners might) The strategy you propose also makes a lot of sense as a scum player. It'd also be very competent of you to do so, albeit madness at the same time. But you know. That's TricMagic.

The fact that most everyone has a divisive opinion on you makes you a very informative execution. You can't say 'mafia would never approve of this'. That's WIFOM. Audacious strategies are valid.

I'd eat my hat if you were town.

drinks from the chocolate river. If I flip as town, mafia wins. If I flip as TP, mafia wins. If I flip as mafia, mafia wins. A better plan for me would be to cause as much Chaos as possible before Time's up. Looks at thread title. In any case, there isn't a scenario where this is good for town. And shooting me is worse, since I currently have no powers. They just don't want their hats taken and given to someone actually deserving of them.


So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.

If you flip as mafia, then mafia loses one of their limited members. The mafia, being outnumbered, do not want to lose members. That makes no sense. If you flip as third party, at least the mafia don't lose one of their members, but neither do the town. It's a neutral outcome, good for them only in that it narrows down their targets. Of course if you flip as town, then the mafia benefit, but I am willing to bet that you are not town.

Yes. I will fight you. I will suffer and bleed for it, and be tortured by the spears of your partners and admirers, who believe that the most holy dragon of hats TricMagic cannot possibly be scum in any way due to your sheer audacity

But I will make you bleed, dragon. My mere mortal hands will pierce your scales, rip out your heart, and bring an end to your menace.

[Maximum Spin]

Max: Why should I think FoU is scum? I think Tric is 3p and that it's a waste to lynch a 3p, but I don't see what's wrong with FoU. as I said in my question to Jim, to me FoU seems very town.

It's hard for me to explain, someone like Jim, who also said he saw it, might be able to give you a better rundown. I'm not very detail-oriented, so the best I can really say is "this sounds like how scum Fallacy usually smells". To at least explain what I mean about the immediate current situation, though: This in particular is something Fallacy does as scum: he's trying to mimic a not-fully-realized idea of what his townself would do, something like "well if I were town I would analyze something", so he picks something that has nothing to do with anything, insists in a very stentorian way that it's the real, correct way to scumhunt in this game, then generates a lot of vague scummy allusions toward something mysterious that somehow connects an indefinite number of people in some open-ended way, and keeps harping on it to try to get people to focus on it and not actually look for anything real. It usually comes with a very pretentious professor-hat attitude.
In contrast, the real town Fallacy is paranoid and confused and tends to think everything is about him, getting lost in his emotive reactions to everything said to him, like I said in my reply to that post.
The difference is actually quite subtle because, as you can see in that link, town Fallacy is also pretentious in a different way where he thinks he is being very clever with wordplay. With practice, though, it is usually identifiable.

Okay, I was able to explain that better than I thought I would be.
just gonna post before reading more

[TricMagic]

You've also missed that I have done analysis, and been building my reads up. I've read this thread, every single page. I can confiently say Knightwing is town, and Max is likely town. (From that one post I mentioned.) Toaster is unlikely to be mafia from my read, and Lenglon and you have been on my radar. (Granted, Lenglon is odd for me.) Jack's also been off, but early days yet.

Hector/Toony is a wait and see approach. I'm fairly sure I've seen them play together before? (Note this is just seeing how they play off each other day 2.) ... Everything else, wait and see how things go. You say I haven't been scumhunting, and I say you are 90% correct, I've been sitting, dreaming about hats, as I watch what goes on around me. That ame divisiveness you acclaim to make me seem a good lynch target? It's just a result of the strategy I've taken for day 1. See what bites, and then break out the teeth.

Ninja max.

[FallacyofUrist]

You've also missed that I have done analysis, and been building my reads up. I've read this thread, every single page. I can confiently say Knightwing is town, and Max is likely town. (From that one post I mentioned.) Toaster is unlikely to be mafia from my read, and Lenglon and you have been on my radar. (Granted, Lenglon is odd for me.) Jack's also been off, but early days yet.

Hector/Toony is a wait and see approach. I'm fairly sure I've seen them play together before? (Note this is just seeing how they play off each other day 2.) ... Everything else, wait and see how things go. You say I haven't been scumhunting, and I say you are 90% correct, I've been sitting, dreaming about hats, as I watch what goes on around me. That ame divisiveness you acclaim to make me seem a good lynch target? It's just a result of the strategy I've taken for day 1. See what bites, and then break out the teeth.

Well if you don't show your analysis, how are we supposed to know you are doing analyzing?

If you are not engaging, but rather lurking, how are we supposed to know you even have teeth? 10% scum hunting is not very good scum hunting.

You are not obligated to rant about how awesome hats are. yes, you can shitpost. It's okay to shitpost! It's fun to shitpost. Everyone with experience brings humor into their play.

But the day is still ripe, and if 90% of what you do is ranting about hats, and merely 10% is analyzing and barely letting drops of that sweet information ichor spill from your mouth, then how can I trust you to be town?

It's hard for me to explain, someone like Jim, who also said he saw it, might be able to give you a better rundown. I'm not very detail-oriented, so the best I can really say is "this sounds like how scum Fallacy usually smells". To at least explain what I mean about the immediate current situation, though: This in particular is something Fallacy does as scum: he's trying to mimic a not-fully-realized idea of what his townself would do, something like "well if I were town I would analyze something", so he picks something that has nothing to do with anything, insists in a very stentorian way that it's the real, correct way to scumhunt in this game, then generates a lot of vague scummy allusions toward something mysterious that somehow connects an indefinite number of people in some open-ended way, and keeps harping on it to try to get people to focus on it and not actually look for anything real. It usually comes with a very pretentious professor-hat attitude.
In contrast, the real town Fallacy is paranoid and confused and tends to think everything is about him, getting lost in his emotive reactions to everything said to him, like I said in my reply to that post.
The difference is actually quite subtle because, as you can see in that link, town Fallacy is also pretentious in a different way where he thinks he is being very clever with wordplay. With practice, though, it is usually identifiable.

Okay, I was able to explain that better than I thought I would be.

You simultaneously assume my competence and incompetence together in a way that makes no sense to me.

I don't think you're reading me right, but I guess that'll only show up once I inevitably roleflip as I get bandwagoned on for daring to defy TricMagic.

[TricMagic]

To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.

In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.

I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.

This is all garbage.

Jack is a poor execution target for scum since he has two votes, and at least for Day 1, for town too because town would prefer to keep a double voter in their pocket than to remove them willy-nilly.

There are enough mafia players here willing to go for a gambit that would make enough sense from your perspective that I don't think this disqualifies you from being scum. Taking refuge in audacity won't save you. (But your partners might) The strategy you propose also makes a lot of sense as a scum player. It'd also be very competent of you to do so, albeit madness at the same time. But you know. That's TricMagic.

The fact that most everyone has a divisive opinion on you makes you a very informative execution. You can't say 'mafia would never approve of this'. That's WIFOM. Audacious strategies are valid.

I'd eat my hat if you were town.

The fact you can call this trash says a lot. As mafia would want a doublevoter doubledead. After all, if it's not their doublevoter, then it's a liabilty. Unless they think they can control Euchrejack. I have little hope of doing so. One of his sheeping targets might, but uh... Sheeping is bad Jack, make reads before you commit to that.

And yeah, it's audacious. For a solo player. Between getting my role and posting, what are the chances that mafia approved of this in the first place? There isn't much time between things, and OoT you can check my arrival in the discord for when I clicked the link. That's WIFOM too though.

drinks from the chocolate river. If I flip as town, mafia wins. If I flip as TP, mafia wins. If I flip as mafia, mafia wins. A better plan for me would be to cause as much Chaos as possible before Time's up. Looks at thread title. In any case, there isn't a scenario where this is good for town. And shooting me is worse, since I currently have no powers. They just don't want their hats taken and given to someone actually deserving of them.


So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.

If you flip as mafia, then mafia loses one of their limited members. The mafia, being outnumbered, do not want to lose members. That makes no sense. If you flip as third party, at least the mafia don't lose one of their members, but neither do the town. It's a neutral outcome, good for them only in that it narrows down their targets. Of course if you flip as town, then the mafia benefit, but I am willing to bet that you are not town.

Yes. I will fight you. I will suffer and bleed for it, and be tortured by the spears of your partners and admirers, who believe that the most holy dragon of hats TricMagic cannot possibly be scum in any way due to your sheer audacity

But I will make you bleed, dragon. My mere mortal hands will pierce your scales, rip out your heart, and bring an end to your menace.

Even if you kill me, by curse or by time, I shall burn you to ash. For none can stop the Dragon of Hats. (haha. Very serious Fallacy. Nice to see you having fun.)

[TricMagic]

Honestly feel for you. But timing is everything sometimes. 10% is still 1.5 people cleared. Which is a win in my book.

[Lenglon]

You've also missed that I have done analysis, and been building my reads up. I've read this thread, every single page. I can confiently say Knightwing is town, and Max is likely town. (From that one post I mentioned.) Toaster is unlikely to be mafia from my read, and Lenglon and you have been on my radar. (Granted, Lenglon is odd for me.) Jack's also been off, but early days yet.

Hector/Toony is a wait and see approach. I'm fairly sure I've seen them play together before? (Note this is just seeing how they play off each other day 2.) ... Everything else, wait and see how things go. You say I haven't been scumhunting, and I say you are 90% correct, I've been sitting, dreaming about hats, as I watch what goes on around me. That ame divisiveness you acclaim to make me seem a good lynch target? It's just a result of the strategy I've taken for day 1. See what bites, and then break out the teeth.

cool. flesh these out please, and then sell me on why you haven't been pushing, presenting, or actively investigating any of it.

You almost-directly claimed to be 3p repeatedly. You have made general statements of "hey scum don't nk me" on repeat. You failed to participate in scumhunting in any meaningful way. Everything you've said has either been self-defense or hathathathathathathat. I've been taking you at your word that you're a 3p, and your behavior has been that of a 3p. is there any reason to think that you're town?

sitting on the sidelines waiting is also known as lurking. I've been willing to tolerate it because it's both a 3p tell and a scumtell. If you convince me that you aren't 3p then i'll be voting you instantly, because to me 3p and scum are the only options here. As I said, this is an acceptable lynch to me, I just think it's a bit wasteful and would prefer to lynch scum over 3p.

[FallacyofUrist]

The fact you can call this trash says a lot. As mafia would want a doublevoter doubledead. After all, if it's not their doublevoter, then it's a liabilty. Unless they think they can control Euchrejack. I have little hope of doing so. One of his sheeping targets might, but uh... Sheeping is bad Jack, make reads before you commit to that.

And yeah, it's audacious. For a solo player. Between getting my role and posting, what are the chances that mafia approved of this in the first place? There isn't much time between things, and OoT you can check my arrival in the discord for when I clicked the link. That's WIFOM too though.

Even if you kill me, by curse or by time, I shall burn you to ash. For none can stop the Dragon of Hats. (haha. Very serious Fallacy. Nice to see you having fun.)

Yes, of course the mafia will want a double voter to die before LYLO, but angering a double voter is a surefire way to have a bad time not getting executed, and it's harder to execute someone with more votes to defend themselves with. The mafia can just shoot Jack, if he's not scum, and if he's easy enough to manipulate they can afford to wait until it's near LYLO.

I also believe you might jump ahead with this strategy without consulting your team. You're spontaneous like that.

And yes, this is fun. Even if I totally think you're a murderous mafioso hatdragon.

Honestly feel for you. But timing is everything sometimes. 10% is still 1.5 people cleared. Which is a win in my book.

Can't you do better than that, if you're town? If you're a dragon, aren't dragons supposed to be ambitious? You do not have to hatctive lurk. You can fully engage in the conversations the rest of the town are sharing.

Unless of course you're mafia and have no inherent desire to do so.

[Maximum Spin]

You simultaneously assume my competence and incompetence together in a way that makes no sense to me.

Yes, like I said before, that's exactly it. You have a unique and recognizable blend of competence and incompetence. You don't seem to realize how impulsive and, often, inattentive you really are. You are simultaneously smart enough to come up with plans, but not enough to stop yourself from stepping in them in certain noticeable ways.
That may be harsh, but I am being frank.
Relatedly: Jack has two votes out of sixteen. It's not that special. If mafia wanted him out badly enough, he'd be out. I could get him out if I had been mafia, and that's not just bragging.

cool. flesh these out please, and then sell me on why you haven't been pushing, presenting, or actively investigating any of it.

You almost-directly claimed to be 3p repeatedly. You have made general statements of "hey scum don't nk me" on repeat. You failed to participate in scumhunting in any meaningful way. Everything you've said has either been self-defense or hathathathathathathat. I've been taking you at your word that you're a 3p, and your behavior has been that of a 3p. is there any reason to think that you're town?

sitting on the sidelines waiting is also known as lurking. I've been willing to tolerate it because it's both a 3p tell and a scumtell. If you convince me that you aren't 3p then i'll be voting you instantly, because to me 3p and scum are the only options here. As I said, this is an acceptable lynch to me, I just think it's a bit wasteful and would prefer to lynch scum over 3p.

Honestly? And I know you didn't ask me and I'm not really going to push the point anyway? I assumed that Tric was probably joking about being a 3p (and is actually town). Not that he couldn't be, but that it didn't seem like it.

[Maximum Spin]

Can't you do better than that, if you're town? If you're a dragon, aren't dragons supposed to be ambitious? You do not have to hatctive lurk. You can fully engage in the conversations the rest of the town are sharing.

Unless of course you're mafia and have no inherent desire to do so.

Addendum, minor: Tric also sometimes has a martyr complex and will absolutely let himself get lynched to clear the people who were pulling for him.
He may not have realized mafia can also tell that, which is another reason why we should not lynch him.

[Lenglon]

Honestly? And I know you didn't ask me and I'm not really going to push the point anyway? I assumed that Tric was probably joking about being a 3p (and is actually town). Not that he couldn't be, but that it didn't seem like it.

mostly honestly. I'm overstating my case because I want Tric to flinch in response to it. There actually is still a world where Tric is town, but if it ever was important I feel I could make a very clear case of him attempting to communicate with the scumteam via the day thread, which is the biggest 3p tell around.