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[Crashmaster]

It always bewilders me how people get so righteous, especially over the magical frog. [..]

Everyone, even people not from the usa, knows what it is associated with and what it is a dog whistle for, lets not pretend otherwise.

Being from the USA does not make someone more knowledgeable about net culture than people from other countries.

OP;
Just let them sterotype people into a group they don't like based on assumptions they make so they can exclude them and move on. It's fine.

[jipehog]

So, which actually happened?
1) You posted a frog and were banned. Later to discover that said frog was against Kitfox's Discord rules.

Or

2) You knew the rules, posted anyway. Were warned that they have a blanket ban on frog memes, so you posted again and were banned?

Because none of the above assumes anything about your beliefs, except that 2 implies you don't care about their rules. So obviously you're going to end up banned.

Toady has rules and warnings and bannings too you know. No different to anywhere else.

Indeed.

Being from the USA does not make someone more knowledgeable about net culture than people from other countries.

It does when we are talking about the "anglosphere" side of the net e.g. there are billion Chinese whose net culture would look very foreign to someone from the USA.

[Vivalas]

It always bewilders me how people get so righteous, especially over the magical frog. [..]

Everyone, even people not from the usa, knows what it is associated with and what it is a dog whistle for, lets not pretend otherwise.

I have no idea what Kitfox policy is or what actually transpired in that instance. There seem to be one or more users (maybe the same person) with an axe to grind about getting banned at kitfox discord, and people here using the opportunity to talk politics. 

The OP have other communities they can participate in like here, steam, reddit etc.. And other avenues to support the game as noted in very first reply.

Nah, it's literally just an emote. Pepe is an icon of meme culture. Maybe not so much in the most whitewashed and squeaky clean boards of the net, and maybe used more by people in my camp who are further away from "politically correct", but far from alt-right. Making blanket statements like that is silly and possibly just as harmful as people actually spreading alt-right stuff around. Which is to say both aforementioned groups are largely ignored outside of alarmist circles so both are fairly harmless.

Like jeez, internet is just full of ideological puritans these days crusading against other ideological puritans.

[Walkaboutout]

I am very loathe to get into discussions like this. But I genuinely feel the need to chime in at this point. The assumptions being made here, by a lot of people in this thread, are outright absurd. For example, here's one of the things I dislike immensely, among more than one in this thread.

Several, in this thread, apparently assume that if you're from the US, or the "anglosphere", or anything else you want to call this place where some of us live, that the following premise I'm about to point out is true. If I'm incorrect in this, or I've misinterpreted some of your rather specific posts (or so they seem to me), then I apologize in advance. Before I state this example, here's a reminder of my situation, should you choose to believe it (and it is 100% true, though you have only my word for it). I frequent the internet, and gaming sites especially, quite a bit.

Now, I'm sure some will want to refute this as not being truthful, but it may shock you to know that, until this very moment, I've never even HEARD of this pepe the frog thing. Not once.

This is just an example of how dangerous (and frankly, potentially offensive), some of your assumptions are about others. I see some of you (not all of course) just throwing these assumptions around willy-nilly. You think you know others whom you've never even met. You think you can pigeon-hole them into certain categories. I suggest that perhaps you should examine your own house first, before lobbing holier-than-thou accusations at folks you don't know.

Some might even say that thats the very thing I'm doing by posting this. I want to say that, in my estimation for whatever that's worth, the difference is, I'm making no assumptions about who you are as an individual, or what you believe, or where you come down on some arbitrary political spectrum, or anything else. I am simply speaking about the very specific posting behavior being made here, in posts in this thread, and that alone. It's that very specific behavior, in and of itself, that I am calling out as itself being extremely narrow-minded, and quite potentially rising to the level of antagonistic, hostile, and offensive.

Again, we don't know each other. I'm willing to bet that, in real life, we all have a great many dreams and fears in common, and all love gaming especially. Maybe that common ground alone is enough for us to respect each other, be kind, and not just throw around what amounts to nasty stereotypes.

[Cthulhu]

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

[jipehog]

The assumptions being made here, by a lot of people in this thread, are outright absurd.

You mean like taking the OP story at face value? With people following the provided framing with their political biases.

it may shock you to know that, until this very moment, I've never even HEARD of this pepe the frog thing. Not once.

Not sure how you being an exception to the rule is relevant to the tone deafness comment, unless you are still arguing about whether the OP was handled sensibly, in which case I encourage to read Shonai_Dweller comment about rules, otherwise I think that floating it here is pointless.

[ayy1337]

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

The full scenario was I commented about my dwarves doing something silly and posted an angry pepe - actually fairly sure it was my first post in the DF discussion channel as I just went there to report a bug earlier - then some mod DM'd me a warning you can't post pepes in the server, I said I couldn't see anything in the rules about pepe, but he pointed it out under the heading "personal attacks and harassment" that I skimmed because, like, why would it be there lol. And so I found it is in fact against the rules, as they state because it's associated with hate groups. I told him what I thought of such a rule and that I wouldn't follow it and if that's a problem he should just ban me now. Is that me being way worse than I wanted people to think?

Toady has rules and warnings and bannings too you know. No different to anywhere else.

There's rules and there's rules. Obviously I'm not against rules in general, but that doesn't mean I have to accept every rule. Toady's rules are reasonable, most people make reasonable rules. As I said in the OP even a rule like "please don't discuss politics here as it's off topic" would make sense and be perfectly fine, but this isn't that.

Because none of the above assumes anything about your beliefs

It does because the reason given for it being against the rules is about its association with and use by "hate groups". I even wouldn't complain about a rule saying no pepe because it's stale and cringe, but the implication that by using it I must be a member of a hate group is infuriating.

Hope you all have a merry christmas anyway I probably won't be back until after then.

[Rose]

So when faced with a request not to do a thing, rather than simply... not doing the thing. Which would really be the easiest thing to do and thousands of people don't do the thing every day, you decided instead that this is a crusade that you need to fight, that it infringes on your rights as a human being that you aren't being allowed to post something on a company's discord server that they don't want on there.

[ixn]

I, for one, am tired of [the meme frog.] I don't think he's terribly funny, except maybe in an ironic "so unfunny you can't help but laugh at its expense" way. There is an undeniable obsession with it shown by grifters, groypers, and other generally unpleasant individuals on the right. There's a reason they use it. I reckon it's kind of like that saying about whiskey and bourbon. Not all whiskey is bourbon, but all bourbon is whiskey. Not everyone who posts [the funny meme frog] is fash, but basically every fash ever is going to post them at some point.

At the end of the day, man, it's just one corner of the internet you can't post frogs on. You can already do that basically everywhere else. If it's with the goal of providing a safer, more inclusive space for everyone, can't you find it in your heart to just move on?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

If someone told me "hey, man, posting that frog makes you look like an asshole" I for one would simply choose to not post the frog that makes me look like an asshole

[brewer bob]

Sounds like good moderation from Kitfox's side.

[Cthulhu]

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

The full scenario was I commented about my dwarves doing something silly and posted an angry pepe - actually fairly sure it was my first post in the DF discussion channel as I just went there to report a bug earlier - then some mod DM'd me a warning you can't post pepes in the server, I said I couldn't see anything in the rules about pepe, but he pointed it out under the heading "personal attacks and harassment" that I skimmed because, like, why would it be there lol. And so I found it is in fact against the rules, as they state because it's associated with hate groups. I told him what I thought of such a rule and that I wouldn't follow it and if that's a problem he should just ban me now. Is that me being way worse than I wanted people to think?

Badness aside, you literally told her to ban you, so why are you here crying about it.

[Rose]

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

The full scenario was I commented about my dwarves doing something silly and posted an angry pepe - actually fairly sure it was my first post in the DF discussion channel as I just went there to report a bug earlier - then some mod DM'd me a warning you can't post pepes in the server, I said I couldn't see anything in the rules about pepe, but he pointed it out under the heading "personal attacks and harassment" that I skimmed because, like, why would it be there lol. And so I found it is in fact against the rules, as they state because it's associated with hate groups. I told him what I thought of such a rule and that I wouldn't follow it and if that's a problem he should just ban me now. Is that me being way worse than I wanted people to think?

Badness aside, you literally told him to ban you, so why are you here crying about it.

Her, but yes. (It was me. I swung the hammer)

[Silicoid]

I regret purchasing the steam edition of dwarf fortress, not because the game is bad or the interface still needs some work or even the fact my framerate drops to 5 when looking at a busy section of fort - as the game as fantastic, and the little issues will be worked out over time. No, I regret my purchase because the publisher, Kitfox as a policy is banning people from their discord for posting a cartoon frog over an imagined association with the alt right.

It's all well and good to be leery of political discussion in a gaming community, as frankly it's off topic and not why anyone is there, however pepe the frog is neither inherently political or uniquely associated with any group. There's a million different pepe emojis drawn doing different things and they're used all over the internet in discord, twitch and other gaming communities.

If they want to take this particular stance and make some political statement I guess that's their prerogative, but I have to voice my opposition and disappointment that they are connected with this game that I love. If I could refund my purchase and donate to Toady directly for his work instead that is what I would do and I will encourage my friends to do so instead as well.

Like it or not pepe is part of the alt-right much like Hitler seized pagan symbols, so generally companies tend to stay away from that. 

Discords can and will be shut down for racism, and while it might not matter for small discord servers, bigger ones where the spotlight is brighter have to be careful.

That being said, companies have the freedom to enforce whatever rules they want, and I don't really see the problem, there are plenty of other places to post pepe pictures, so why hang your flag on one server?

[scriver]

I want to preface this with my opinions that I don't think pepe is a hategroup only meme, and that I think making things like that taboo only strengthen it's usage and association with hategroups. I put this disclaimer here in hope of you understanding that the following does not hinge on it being an image with a bad reputation.

That said, this is hardly an unreasonable request. If a chat server had a simple rule they ask you to follow then you either follow it or go somewhere else. In the case of a banned motif, it doesn't matter if it's pictures of pepe or, I dunno, wine -- even if you're some kind of fine wine aficionado or wine meme connoisseur you still refrain from posting pictures of wine while in that space. It's basic level politeness. Nobody is asking you to start hating pepes. Nobody is asking you to never post a pepe meme anywhere ever again. They are simply asking you not to in their space, for the short period of time you are there. So why wouldn't you? Do you also talk loudly in the library and skateboard through the mall, just to show that you "don't do what they tell you"?

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

The full scenario was I commented about my dwarves doing something silly and posted an angry pepe - actually fairly sure it was my first post in the DF discussion channel as I just went there to report a bug earlier - then some mod DM'd me a warning you can't post pepes in the server, I said I couldn't see anything in the rules about pepe, but he pointed it out under the heading "personal attacks and harassment" that I skimmed because, like, why would it be there lol. And so I found it is in fact against the rules, as they state because it's associated with hate groups. I told him what I thought of such a rule and that I wouldn't follow it and if that's a problem he should just ban me now. Is that me being way worse than I wanted people to think?

Badness aside, you literally told her to ban you, so why are you here crying about it.

And yeah, this. What did you expect would happen if you say "I won't follow your rules"? The kitfox channel explicitely asks you to agree to their rules to even let you post at all. What you did is no different from going back to that page and unclicking the agree reaction. You reneged on the agreement. They took back your ability to post.

And when you said "I won't follow your rules, kick me if you don't like it" directly to the moderation team, what else can they do? You posted the ultimatum. If they hadn't drawn the line then they might as well told you don't have to follow their rules. Let's go over the scenario again together, as per your own words:
1) You post a banned image
2) Rose (assuming you are correct here and that it was you, Rose) tells you that you can't post that here. She doesn't immediately ban you without a word, instead informs you about the rule and where it says no such images.
3) You tell her you won't follow that rule, and that the mods should ban you if they have a problem with you not following the rule.
4) She bans you.

Do you see how, even though you broke a rule you'd already explicitly agreed to follow when you joined, the moderator at 2) approached you with the prospect that you simply might have missed it, or the expectation that you could at least correctly behave yourself in the future? This is, in my opinion, a good approach to moderation.
Do you understand how at 3), you are the one who escalates this simple correction to a conflict?

Finally, I'm just going to say that you're not going to find much support here on Bay12 either. There are very few things that will get you banned from here, and Toady is very patient as a moderator himself, but one thing that repeatedly comes to mind as getting people banned is what he calls "mod sassing". Ie, challenging the mods over their moderation in a sassy manner. Which, it appears to me, is exactly what you did on the kitfox server.