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[Thorfinn]

You seem to be focusing on the exact details of what the groups believe in rather than the nature of what said groups advocate.

I advocate putting toes to the fire but I do not believe in burned toes.

Right. That's what an ideology is, a body of ideas. I'm separating the ideology itself from its "unintended" consequences. In your simplified example, anyone who does not know that literally holding feet to the fire will result in burned toes is a moron, and anyone who just ignores the obvious consequence is a psychopath. Neither is a political ideology.

But there are more complicated causality issues, like supplying foreign aid. When people can get something for free, to that extent you destroy the producers within that society. For example, sending free food to Africa wipes out African farmers. Was the intent to create a permanent underclass in a society that can never feed itself ever again? Probably not, so I'll leave that out of the political ideology, and attribute it to "unintended" consequences, even if it is both foreseeable and has been the outcome every time its tried. "This time it will be different" and all that.

"Left" is an odd duck. In continental Europe, some still Left from the French 1800s to mean the liberals (lovers of liberty) like Bastiat. Left in Germany is a different thing, in that their division dates to the Weimar Republic. Look up the major parties on the internet. Pretty much all of them had "sozial" (obvious) or "arbeit" (work) or volk (~People's or Popular in this context) or "demokratische" (again, obvious) in their name, and even generally in their politics. Even those that named themselves "Konservativ-" (obvious) or "Freiheit-" (freedom) were championing recognizably socialist policies. You could have bombed the Reichstag and killed no more than a dozen non-socialists. Whether you were a unionist, a churchman, an industrialist, a militarist, a populist or pretty much any other politics, you were a socialist. The right/left split was over nationalism/internationalism. That's why the Nazis were considered right-wing -- they were national socialists.

[Rose]

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

The full scenario was I commented about my dwarves doing something silly and posted an angry pepe - actually fairly sure it was my first post in the DF discussion channel as I just went there to report a bug earlier - then some mod DM'd me a warning you can't post pepes in the server, I said I couldn't see anything in the rules about pepe, but he pointed it out under the heading "personal attacks and harassment" that I skimmed because, like, why would it be there lol. And so I found it is in fact against the rules, as they state because it's associated with hate groups. I told him what I thought of such a rule and that I wouldn't follow it and if that's a problem he should just ban me now. Is that me being way worse than I wanted people to think?

Badness aside, you literally told him to ban you, so why are you here crying about it.

Her, but yes. (It was me. I swung the hammer)

We agree that it was explicitly stated in the rules "before" he posted? (and not added afterwards)
in that case it is fair game. (even if i would prefere if the "banned thing list" would be something legally decided as it would make it clearer to everyone where to look up and what list to refere to to know if / what is allowed)
Is "winnie the pooh" banned too, or is he allowed? (i ask as i've already heard of him being banned)

It's been explicitly stated in the rules for a long time now, yes.

Also nobody is banned without warning unless they're steam scammers.

Which is funny, because I one had a guyact very huffy when I asked him to stop some behavior that wa going against the spirit of the rules, even if that very specific situation wasn't written out, and they were going on and on about "Where is it written in the rules that I can't do this thing? I have no possible way of knowing that I can't do this thing" despite me telling them right there that they can't do this thing.

At the end of the day, the ban on Pepe the frog is just one of the ways that we use to make sure that the server remains free of bigots and chuds and other similar nasties, and I have seen many people comment on how nice it is that they feel safe to be there, which tells me that it's working.