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[Frumple]

And I consider myself "one of the 'A's in LGBTQIAA++", so I'm not sure GRSM is inclusive of me. I'm being oppressed!

The As would pretty straightforwardly fall under romantic (aro) or sexual (ace) minority, wouldn't it? Unless there's a third sort of A out there.

It'd be in the sense that atheism is a position on theistic belief... which there's argument about at times from various strains of atheist, but it's probably close enough for general use.

[Starver]

And I consider myself "one of the 'A's in LGBTQIAA++", so I'm not sure GRSM is inclusive of me. I'm being oppressed!

The As would pretty straightforwardly fall under romantic (aro) or sexual (ace) minority, wouldn't it? Unless there's a third sort of A out there.

Ah I'd lazily put those two together as the one A. Mark me down (primarily, and hopefully) as Ally. But that's why I preserve the plusses.

It'd be in the sense that atheism is a position on theistic belief... which there's argument about at times from various strains of atheist, but it's probably close enough for general use.

I'm much happier arguing my triple-A position on that issue: Atheist agnostic apatheist. (Don't believe, don't see any possibility of certainty, don't think it's worth bothering about.)

[Grim Portent]

And I consider myself "one of the 'A's in LGBTQIAA++", so I'm not sure GRSM is inclusive of me. I'm being oppressed!

The As would pretty straightforwardly fall under romantic (aro) or sexual (ace) minority, wouldn't it? Unless there's a third sort of A out there.

It'd be in the sense that atheism is a position on theistic belief... which there's argument about at times from various strains of atheist, but it's probably close enough for general use.

Ally is sometimes added to the A's. Depends a bit on who you ask, and also on when. The umbrella abbreviation has grown a lot over the years.

I like to include it personally, anyone who supports equality is as much a part of the community as any other member of the alphabet mafia imo. Friends are family so to speak. So I would put at least 3 A's, Asexual, Aromantic and Allies.


GRSM is a pretty good fit for a more scientific descriptor, the sort of thing you would use on a census or in a paper on systemic issues specifically focused on people who fit the criterion, but it's not really a good term for the community itself, which has a lot of people who are not themselves GRSM in it even if many are only peripherally involved. You could say GRSM and Friends, but that sounds like an old superhero cartoon.

[scriver]

All of ya'll are AAA people, friends

[Maximum Spin]

Why does it matter what the label does or does not include? Surely that's not the important thing here.

[EuchreJack]

Why does it matter what the label does or does not include? Surely that's not the important thing here.

I gather you don't work with people and groups for a living.
The whole point of labels is to divide people.
Tell the blacks, the browns, and the others that they're different, and suddenly they need a white man to unify them. Start talking about the rights of people of color, and suddenly they figure out that they can start running their own political candidates.
... actually, good point Max.
(FYI, I lump Maximum Spin, MaxtheFox, and Max^tm into one entity, generally. But Maximum Zero usually gets his own identity, because I don't like getting bodyslammed)

[Maximum Spin]

I gather you don't work with people and groups for a living.
The whole point of labels is to divide people.
Tell the blacks, the browns, and the others that they're different, and suddenly they need a white man to unify them. Start talking about the rights of people of color, and suddenly they figure out that they can start running their own political candidates.
... actually, good point Max.

So uh, I don't want to make a big deal about this again because I know you don't mean it this way, but you are basically saying that minorities are too dumb or gullible to organize politically unless white people phrase it just right.
Blacks figured out how to run their own political candidates back when they were still called 'negroes', or worse.
People aren't really that easily led.

(FYI, I lump Maximum Spin, MaxtheFox, and Max^tm into one entity, generally. But Maximum Zero usually gets his own identity, because I don't like getting bodyslammed)

MaxtheFox is fine, but the cull:square dude called me a right-wing paleo dieter, so I'm not going to sign off on that one.

[Starver]

Why does it matter what the label does or does not include? Surely that's not the important thing here.

...as a more direct answer, my own 'raising' of the issue was just a flippant faux-outrage at being 'out-grouped' just because I was (adjacently) outside those various sets of people who could actually 'come out'... No real fuss, it just sparked a more semantic discussion than anticipated.

(Not that I'm seriously demanding to be part of it... I'm merely so happy for those that are that I'll readily be associated with y'all, and be an advocate, if anyone wants me to. So however anybody wants to reclassify and recombine, if there's a slot for me then I'd hope you could consider me in it.)

[Strongpoint]

I think not all people who fall under the definition of LGBTQ+ actually want to be grouped together.

Like, I dunno, a lesbian who is also a radical feminist may not want to have anything to do with T and have extremely transphobic views. Or a religious asexual may find the LGB disgusting, sinful, and worthy of execution.

[Grim Portent]

I think not all people who fall under the definition of LGBTQ+ actually want to be grouped together.

Like, I dunno, a lesbian who is also a radical feminist may not want to have anything to do with T and have extremely transphobic views. Or a religious asexual may find the LGB disgusting, sinful, and worthy of execution.

Broadly correct, indeed there's a transphobic organisation in the UK that calls itself the LGB Alliance as I recall. According to their own membership they are something like 70-80% hetero (and skew very old to my recollection,) but that still means there's some transphobic self-reported homosexuals or no-answers in there.

It's also a way to boost the visibility of the smaller groups. LGB is the biggest part of the community by a large margin, so a lot of the others would just get lumped in with us rather than being seen as their own things. Transgender people were often seen as just crossdressing homosexuals for example before some of them really pushed for recognition. Carving out their own space and recognition is something they put a lot of work into, but they are still part of our umbrella group. Same principle applies to all the others, they aren't the same thing as us, so they should get their own space on the label but we should all collectively campaign for each other's rights to be expanded and upheld.

There isn't really a good collective word for the community, it covers a huge swathe of people who are sometimes only linked in that they don't conform to traditional assumptions for their respective society, so alphabet spaghetti it is.

[EuchreJack]

I gather you don't work with people and groups for a living.
The whole point of labels is to divide people.
Tell the blacks, the browns, and the others that they're different, and suddenly they need a white man to unify them. Start talking about the rights of people of color, and suddenly they figure out that they can start running their own political candidates.
... actually, good point Max.

So uh, I don't want to make a big deal about this again because I know you don't mean it this way, but you are basically saying that minorities are too dumb or gullible to organize politically unless white people phrase it just right.
Blacks figured out how to run their own political candidates back when they were still called 'negroes', or worse.
People aren't really that easily led.

I appreciate that. I recall how blacks had several members in Congress before the Ku Klux Klan started terrorizing the South post-Civil War.
I was more saying that white politicians like to divide up...literally everyone.  And marketers, who are basically the same thing.

(FYI, I lump Maximum Spin, MaxtheFox, and Max^tm into one entity, generally. But Maximum Zero usually gets his own identity, because I don't like getting bodyslammed)

MaxtheFox is fine, but the cull:square dude called me a right-wing paleo dieter, so I'm not going to sign off on that one.

How dare he!  We all know you would NEVER eat a salad!

[Salsa Gal]

And I consider myself "one of the 'A's in LGBTQIAA++", so I'm not sure GRSM is inclusive of me. I'm being oppressed!

Huh, which one? I'm only aware of asexual.

[Vector]

So, I'm going to clarify via a couple of bullet points:

Since you didn't quoted anyone specific, i'd clarify that I am curious about the mentioned change in the last few months, labled as countrywide slide and alluded to widespread changes in univesrties (and education) system which would have wider implications. I don't belive anyone have questioned your expirences or the hardship of trans people in society as whole

Otherwise, this thread is usually more active, I hopped that by now someone with applicable experience in what you are going through would offer some advice. Best I can offer is an apology if the terminology ruckus have made you feel uncomfortable and in need to defend/educate about your position, I know this can get daunting over time.

Erin Reed's coverage is imperfect, but she has a fairly comprehensive newsletter tracking legislative changes. There are now four states with legislation medically detransitioning adults and at least one state (Florida) with a criminal bathroom law. At the beginning of the year, there were zero.

How many working mathematicians in the US were openly trans 20 years ago?
How many are you likely to be unaware of, given your pool of known working mathematicians and expected total of known working mathematicians?

The advice that's going around from People Who Know is "just keep your head down and do the minimum right now." The current legislative movement is career-ending.

Yes, twenty years ago there were very, very few transgender mathematicians. The law and our social norms destroyed generation after generation. Ten years ago transition was almost unthinkable for a lot of people. I would know, I was looking up transition resources back then and there was literally almost nothing. "Nonbinary" was not a thing that almost any of the population had a word for. I didn't know any words for what I was; I just said I was "both and neither" and overall, in my experience, folks were unrelentingly cruel about it.

I'm trying to tell you: things were better in the US. They are now bad and getting worse.

Huh, which one? I'm only aware of asexual.

AAA is usually agender, aromantic, asexual.

[Salsa Gal]

Huh, which one? I'm only aware of asexual.

AAA is usually agender, aromantic, asexual.

So yeah those are gender, romantic, or sexual minorities, so it definitely counts

[EuchreJack]

As I check out Today's Google Doodle of Barbara May Camerons, I wonder if Google decided to stop being evil.

...then I remember that it's almost June.

Oh well, enjoy it while it lasts.