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Author Topic: FBYOR 5 - Game Over - Learning From Disaster, As All Ends In Fire And Darkness  (Read 62222 times)

FallacyofUrist

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... Wait. Fallacy, you never actually clarified? That superkill is still a kill, so would it trigger my scales flames given Nakeen was also On Fire?
Uh… let me get back to you on that. You may be right. Uh oh.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

Nakéen

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Even better outcome, everyone dies in a fiery explosion!
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Egan_BW

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Looks like town and mafia wincons explicitly require both eliminating the other team and having at least one player alive. So yeah everyone loses.
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I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

EuchreJack

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Nah, Nakéen was alive for 0.2 seconds longer than everyone else, so Mafia wins.  Sorry folks.

Maximum Spin

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Roden and I clearly won by dying before having to deal with all of this crap like the rest of you guys. :P
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Lenglon

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as a reminder: in the case of Everyone Dies, the SK wins.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

NJW2000

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Uh... actions resolve simultaneously. Depends on how you read the interaction between Final Countdown and Dragon's Scales, but I think Tric probably does win?

There's nothing about Final Countdown bypassing or preventing blocks, it's just "unstoppable", so potentially only overrides the bit of Scales about stopping the kill and leaves the rest. Obviously a matter of GM's discretion that should be decided based on how the roles were intended to work.Ooor by coinflip. Either's good.



Man... I wouldn't have realised Tric was SK, though I guess that if we got Nakeen and the game didn't end, we'd have eventually started killing dragons.
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One wheel short of a wagon

TricMagic

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... Wait. Fallacy, you never actually clarified? That superkill is still a kill, so would it trigger my scales flames given Nakeen was also On Fire?
Uh… let me get back to you on that. You may be right. Uh oh.

So yes, setting Nakeen on fire did help my victory. A dragon does not just lie down to die. (If it does work out like that)
Also Knightwing wins too thanks to their dubious Morality.
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Nakéen

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I also think this is a flawless TricMagic victory. Quite appropriate given the dragon theme of the game too.
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EuchreJack

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And here I was thinking that I was the Greatest Villain in this game. But Tric made me look like a chump.

Scumchat: https://discord.gg/5fpNb8Zn

FallacyofUrist

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Man... I wouldn't have realised Tric was SK, though I guess that if we got Nakeen and the game didn't end, we'd have eventually started killing dragons.
More accurately, everyone left alive would immediately vote to execute me and put an end to the game.



Okay, let's dig into the legality of this.

Quote
(1-Shot, Day, Mafiakill) Final Countdown: The end is nigh. This action can only be used on Day 4. When you use this ability, its full text is publicly revealed in the thread. The Mafiakill can no longer be used. If you are still alive at the end of Day 5, after the execution, kill every living non-mafia player in the game immediately, unstoppably, and irreversibly.
Quote
(1-Shot, Auto) Dragon’s Scales: Your scales resist harm. When someone would kill you, you survive it, and the player who attempted to kill you is set On Fire. If they are already On Fire, you kill them instead.

Tric actually has two shots of Dragon's Scales thanks to juicebox, but that's not relevant.

My records indicate that Nakéen is On Fire. Final Countdown kills unstoppably, so Tric does die, regardless of having multiple layers of scales. However, Dragon's Scales 'set-on-fire' effect is not stated to be conditional on surviving the kill. So 'you survive it' is voided, but 'the player who attempted to kill you is set On Fire' is not voided. Which leads us to 'If they are already On Fire, you kill them instead.' My intent when writing this was that instead of igniting the player, they would be killed, though as with many abilities in this game, it could do with more clear writing.

End result: EuchreJack is executed. Final Countdown resolves. All non-mafia players are killed, and then Tric's ability kills Nakéen.

Nah, Nakéen was alive for 0.2 seconds longer than everyone else, so Mafia wins.  Sorry folks.
This is, actually and unfortunately for the Mafia, wrong. Nakéen was in fact alive after everyone's death, at least before Tric's ability resolves. However, it is stated in the rules OP in multiple places that the Mafia's victory is conditional on there being no ways to interrupt the fact that they outnumber the other players.

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The Mafia win once the number of uneliminated Mafia equal or surpass the number of remaining uneliminated non-Mafia players, so long as there is no way to interrupt that condition and at least one Mafia player is still alive.
Nakéen outnumbers everyone else for a brief moment, but Tric's ability is about to kill them. So I can't rule this as a Mafia victory.

If Tric was Town, nobody would win. However, he is a Serial Killer.

Quote
The Serial Killer wins when every player that is not themselves has been eliminated. If every player including themselves is dead, they also win.

Every single player is now dead. Thus, TricMagic wins.

Oh, and Knightwing too, due to Uncertain Morality.

Quote
(Auto) Uncertain Morality: Your morality is… flexible. Your alignment is treated as Serial Killer for the purposes of investigative abilities. Additionally, if a Serial Killer aligned player wins the game, you are treated as if you possess the Serial Killer-Ally win condition.

For future reference, cutting out part of your ability text and posting the rest of it in the thread is still a violation of the no direct quotes rule.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

webadict

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I am pretty sure that your dragon scales would not activate as a consequence of the Action.

Quote
(Reference) (1-Shot, Auto) Dragon’s Scales: Your scales resist harm. When someone would kill you, you survive it, and the player who attempted to kill you is set On Fire. If they are already On Fire, you kill them instead.

The conditional phrase appears to only activate if you would survive:
Quote
(1-Shot, Day, Mafiakill) Final Countdown: The end is nigh. This action can only be used on Day 4. When you use this ability, its full text is publicly revealed in the thread. The Mafiakill can no longer be used. If you are still alive at the end of Day 5, after the execution, kill every living non-mafia player in the game immediately, unstoppably, and irreversibly.

Debatable on this, but the immediately parts implies that this Action happens without any other Action happening.  The unstoppably part also applies here, so you cannot survive it.

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When someone would kill you
Would kill you implies that this happens as a reaction to this Action.  I think immediately would not have that chance, but acting at the same time might be possible.

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...you survive it, and the player who attempted to kill you is set On Fire.  If they are already On Fire, you kill them instead.

Part of the issue with this phrasing is that it implies that you must survive it to set a player On Fire.  Since the following phrase is an addendum to that conditional, this seems to imply that Nakeen would probably not be killed by this Ability.

Now, that's entirely debatable, so whatever.  Personally, I think you'd have to accept that this is a Mafia win, if only for the fact that a Mafiakill Ability that kills every other Player causing the Mafia Player who used it to die kinda makes no sense from a game design philosophy, but this whole fucking game doesn't follow any reasonable interpretation, so it's entirely within the realm of possibilities that TricMagic wins, regardless.  That could be considered a weakness to the Action, since having more teammates makes this a viable action.

Personally, I feel like Max was right, and that he and Roden are the true winners.

This game was a pain simulator.

Ninjad.
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hector13

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I’m glad the mafia didn’t win with that, and well done Tric because I would not in a million years have figured he was SK.
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If you struggle with your mental health, please seek help.

webadict

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My role made no fucking sense given anything that existed.
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FallacyofUrist

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As an exercise in design I'm going to post what everyone's roles should have been along with their actual roles, as both a way to practice good design along with demonstrating to future readers how badly I fucked up here.

Oh, and Max shouldn't have died. That mess-up was when I started making interaction spreadsheet-like tables for Night results, which saved me a lot of time and trouble.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.
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