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[ToonyMan]

Let's do some reasoning.

First, some assumptions:

1. Evil!Persus and Good!Jim were killed in the same way, this means the same player or group of players (likely group of players) killed them.
2. I strongly don't believe Lenglon, Knightwing, or Max are Evil. This is because they all behave in a way that feels extremely...alone.

That leaves Jack, Vector, NQT, Hector.

NQT was blocked by Max on N1 and double-blocked by Max/Lenglon on N2, he hasn't been able to do anything. I find him incredibly suspicious and think he's Evil with whoever killed Persus and Jim, but I really really want to figure out the Persus/Jim killer.

That leaves Jack, Vector, and Hector.

Vector didn't kill Persus on N1, I can confirm this.

That leaves Jack and Hector.

Jack maaaaybe could have killed Persus while stealing Max's roleblock, but I don't know. Hector killing Persus while getting simple Sage results sounds more believable to me.

I think there has to be one (and only one) mafia inside Jack/Hector.

PPE:

@Lenglon: it’s pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that the team is Jack and Max at this point. Jack’s N1 action was only corroborated by Max, arguably given a bit more strength by having “stole” a mafiakill blocking ability from Max that he would’ve known about from being in a team.

I'll take this into serious consideration. I'm going to look into Jack and Max's interactions on D1.

[ToonyMan]

I am not a witch.

So then...Vector is last Witch?

You're a Wizard Max.

[Maximum Spin]

I am not a witch.

So then...Vector is last Witch?

You're a Wizard Max.

Assuming hector is even telling the truth.

[hector13]

I am not a witch.

Why is this important, I hear you say? Well, they both claimed to have a block specific to the mafiakill - which doesn’t make much sense to me, a block is a block, it’ll stop the mafiakill as well as anything else

Don't be stupid. The block works as a normal block most of the time, but under the right circumstances, automatically blocks the mafiakill and announces its target publically in the thread.

Is this why my attempt to imply, in my instructions to Jack, that those circumstances would have been in operation last night didn't deter you in any way? The mafia didn't actually understand what it would do? That does, at least, somewhat quiet my suspicion that EuchreJack might really be Evil, since in that case Evil would know exactly how the block worked. Although you could still be faking not knowing, I guess.


I agree with the principle that Jack's action makes no sense at all. Buuuuut he does that sometimes, too.

(I absolutely did not disappear D2, I went to war with Knightwing that whole day!)

In much the same way you “missed” Lenglon saying she’d block NQT?

Or did you not miss it, and block me, expecting me to say I was blocked so you could throw shade on me, not knowing my lists are unblockable?

[hector13]

I am not a witch.

So then...Vector is last Witch?

You're a Wizard Max.

Assuming hector is even telling the truth.

All it takes is one person coming forward saying I’m lying.

[hector13]

I wonder if it’ll be you or Jack to come forward?

[Maximum Spin]

Or did you not miss it, and block me, expecting me to say I was blocked so you could throw shade on me, not knowing my lists are unblockable?

What kind of theory is this? If I blocked you, and wanted to "throw shade on" you for being blocked... even though a kill clearly happened so if you were blocked you couldn't have done it... why would I have announced that I blocked NQT before you even said anything? I could have said that I blocked you, then Jack and I could've claimed that your results were wrong so you can't possibly have really got them. In fact, I could have claimed that without actually blocking you and done just as well with a free action in the mix too! Assume that I am halfway decent at strategy, please, especially as scum, even if sometimes I don't pay attention to what other people are planning to do in the night.

Which I don't, by the way. The same thing tripped me up in Demon Mafia when web and I both shot ToonyMan. It's a failing, but like I've said, I'd rather be accused justly of occasional poor judgement than wrongly of bad plans.

[Lenglon]

...
After all my frustration with Hector being noncommittal, this all-in Hector has my full approval, even if not all the arguments seem to stick.

[Maximum Spin]

...
After all my frustration with Hector being noncommittal, this all-in Hector has my full approval, even if not all the arguments seem to stick.

The truth is, I really think there's a chance it might be Jack.

I wrote more, but I should really write less. The less I say, the better. Can you still jailkeep or was that a one-shot?

[Maximum Spin]

...
After all my frustration with Hector being noncommittal, this all-in Hector has my full approval, even if not all the arguments seem to stick.

The truth is, I really think there's a chance it might be Jack.

I wrote more, but I should really write less. The less I say, the better. Can you still jailkeep or was that a one-shot?

I do want to be clearer about this though: Jack couldn't have killed d1, he still understood my ability correctly. So the theory about d1 actions still applies and still points where it pointed before.

[hector13]

In this scenario you’re performing the kill with your scumbuddy.

You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.

Speculation, sure, but you corroborates Jack’s N1 claim so he wasn’t suspected of the kill D2, while you “doubling up” an action on N2 means you could’ve switched who performed the kill.

If I assume you’re smart enough to make a good plan, I can assume you’re smart enough to fake a bad one :p

[hector13]

The alternative is Vector performed the kill N1 and is teamed with Toony, and they both performed a kill N2, which is tremendously unfair for town.

Webadict made the game though, so I don’t think he’d make it so unfair for town.

[Maximum Spin]

You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.

So who blocks you? Jack? In which case he really does have a copy of my block and couldn't have killed d1?

Or if you mean that I block you but Jack kills, that's slightly more reasonable, but preeeetty dangerous given that Jack and I would both have weak claims and it's already known that I'd been blocking people. Why would I want to make it your word against mine like that? After all of d1 and d2?

You're forgetting that Lenglon could also have done the kill d1, by the way. Knowing that my action succeeded is not impressive, especially after I already claimed it.

[Maximum Spin]

Which directly reminds me, Lenglon, what was the priority on your jailkeep? You never did answer that I saw.

[ToonyMan]

The alternative is Vector performed the kill N1 and is teamed with Toony, and they both performed a kill N2, which is tremendously unfair for town.

Webadict made the game though, so I don’t think he’d make it so unfair for town.

Yeah you could argue I was covering for Vector on N1 and then we both killed on N2, but I don't think even Evil wants to push that.

Speaking of Vector, let's talk about Vector.

If Vector is Evil I highly doubt it's with Hector, this is because Vector would have put both of them in a really awkward spot where they have to kill Persus to do any killing on N1.

What about NQT? Probably not, in fact I think Vector has the scumteam nailed on the head here:

Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?

I wanted one person who I was completely fine with dying (was originally Tric but I switched last minute to Persus) and one person who I thought would be appetizing for the scumteam in case we have a watcher (originally Toony but I decided that was too appetizing and I preferred to protect him, switched to Hector).

I can see your reasoning. If that's what happened, then I wonder if someone protected Hector?

This rings my bells as docfishing. NQT.

Another option, of course, is that Hector is scum.

The only player I could reasonably see Evil!Vector with is Jack, but that makes interactions like this very humourous:

Welcome back, Town-Vector!

Fuck off

I'm hopeful that Vector can participate today and give feedback on NQT, Jack, and Hector.